In a message dated 97-09-07 08:25:43 EDT, [log in to unmask] (Joel Govostes)
writes:
 
<< In one of his recent beekeeping books, Ron Brown (of Devon) recommends
 overwintering in one brood box plus a full honey super, with *excluder*
 between. This way no brood ever ends up in the food super, maintaining
 clean combs, and the bees have a good portion of honey situated directly
 above them where it is most useful.
 
 Now, it is more commonly stated that excluders should *not* be left in
 position during winter, as the queen could become isolated below, and then
 the colony would lose her as the cluster moved upward.
 
 Have any BEE-L'ers out there overwintered in such fashion, intentionally or
 by accident?  Ever actually had queens deserted below an excluder in this
 way?
 
 Just never have heard any actual accounts of this happening.  It would seem
 that any cluster worth overwintering would likely extend from the food
 super down through the excluder and into the brood chamber, so the queen
 would not be "left behind."
 
 Any comments appreciated>>
 
    Joel, I used to do this quite a bit in South Carolina. We made a hard and
fast rule however (due to sad experience) never to have more than one shallow
above the excluder.  If the cluster is decent sized, only about half of it
will go through the excluder at the very most.
 
   If two or more shallows are left above an excluder the cluster usually
moves on through. Sometimes the queen will also get through, as she is
shrunken from not laying too many eggs. But usually she is left below and
dies. In the spring you have only a few demoralized bees, or a robbed out
colony.
 
   We don't winter on honey anymore, as we are treating with Apistan, and I
have no way to store full supers. So we extract and feed, wintering, for the
most part in a single deep with dry sugar feed.
 
    In your area it would be riskier. You sure wouldn't want to run them in a
deep, with a deep or two shallows above.  I don't see any reason why you
couldn't winter bees in a double (as is normal in the north) with an excluder
and a shallow super of honey. They would be very unlikely to get enough of
the cluster through to lose the queen.
 
    But why?
 
    As long as pollen reserves are sufficient, bees will winter better on
syrup or sugar. And they are less valuable than honey, so that pays the
labor, plus.
 
 
[log in to unmask]      Dave Green   Hemingway, SC  USA