>Allen, the above post appears truncated.  Is there something missing
>or is your later post re: flying bees as a requirement for tipping to
>work, the rest of the first message?
 
Right.  I had promised to repost the following  message, since it
seemed to have been cut off in mid transmission.  I had problems
because it was in an inaccessible folder, but now that this ISP is
up again, I am sending it.
 
----------------------------------------------------
 
This is a reply to a private email that resulted from a recent post.
I imagine the content is of general interest, so am sending it to
all.
 
> Yes, some odor does
> get into the honey house, but I have found that a quick ventilation
> of the building when warm removes the odor.
 
As I said those who use the Bee-Go, cannot smell it, even though the
smell lingers for months.
 
> Anyway, I'm intrigued by the tipping method and would prefer to use
> that vs. boards.  I'm probably somewhere intermediate in the group
> that you mentioned who don't have the expertise to use this method.
 
Well, if you think you are an intermediate, then likely you are
humble and observant enough to get away with using tipping :) Lots of
beginners quickly think they are *experts* because they read the books
and/or got elected to an executive position in the local bee club --
hence my warning.
 
> I can tell the difference between bees leaving a super and those
>robbing.  However, I don't have much of an idea of what weather and
>flow conditions are good.
 
Here's a good indicator of a good flow: Many bees come and go
rapidly from all hives (without stopping to orient), and there is no
serious defensive behaviour at the entrances.  bees do not 'hover'
like bullets at every potential hive crack in the characteristic
robbing position. Honey left on the ground in front of the hives is
left *untouched* for days. There is humming at night as the bees fan
the moisture from nectar, and often some of the bees will 'hang out'.
 
> I'm surprised that you say this method can
> work under robbing conditions.
 
I am really leary about recommending tipping without a flow because I
have often been surprised to find what other beekeepers might do -- or
not know  that I would have never imagined from just talking to them
-- things that might have a huge influence on the results.
 
Using abandonment during 'no flow' conditions is  tricky because of
the possibility of robbing activity overwhelming weak hives (and an
inexperienced beekeeper), and conversely the difficulties posed by
the bees being semi-dormant in the supers.
 
Using tipping during a good flow is reasonably idiot-proof, but if
there is *even a chance* of robbing, well... Then it gets
unpredictable.
 
(So, Remember -- don't try this at home kids -- unless you happen to
be -- or have the supervision of  -- a well experienced beekeeper)!
 
Here's how it is done:
 
Firstly , you don't just go away while the boxes are tipped when
robbing is possible.   You watch closely.
 
Since one way to stop robbing (temporarily, at least)  in  a yard is
to remove*every* hive lid and leave it off while you work, a similar
effect can be used to have the bees leave the supers -- without
robbing problems:
 
When you tip boxes from every hive in a yard on a hot day with many
bees flying actively and perhaps light robbing already occuring, the
bees will depart quite rapidly.   In the confusion, there will not be
much robbing or violent defensive behaviour until the boxes are
picked up, and even then there should be little problem -- if it is
accomplished with reasonable speed.  Be careful not to leave scraps
of honey around when you depart.
 
Once begun, there will be *a lot* of bee activity -- enough to
intimidate novices.  If you plan to work with this, try  it on a
limited scale at first.
 
A method I consider much safer is to place full supers (with bees) --
not necessarily from only one hive if you use excluders) on a single
pallet with the top of the stack open,  about two or three hours
before dusk on a day when the hives are active.
 
Light robbing starts and gets the bees stirred up enough to depart,
but the declining light puts a natural end to robbing and flight, and
stimulated the bees to want to go home to mother. If things go awry,
just placing a tight lid on the stack ends the problem.
 
You return to claim the boxes any time before 8 AM or so (Don't be
late). It's slick, and when done right, few -- if any -- bees remain,
and none are killed. The burr comb is nicely cleaned up and the honey
either deposited in the combs or taken back to the parent hive.  It
works best in a home yard, and that's where I have often used it
without any problem.
 
Of course, you can just put a bee escape board on top of the above
stacks  to begin with (with the triangle up), and if you have taped
the cracks, you can even depart for a while.
 
The problem with this  in no-flow conditions is that the bees
may be sluggish and not inclined to leave unless stimulated by
repeated smoking or the stimulation caused by some light robbing.
But then, you can wait days with no problem if the escape board can
stand weather.
 
*Tipping*, on the other hand causes some stimulation by changing the
normal orientation of the super, and allowing light to enter.
Nonetheless, smoke may be required to get the bees to start moving.
 
> This year we have had excellent honey
> production and many hives have 5 or 6 packed full shallow supers on
> them.  Because they are packed, many have burr comb between supers
> and thus honey is exposed when supers are separated from the hive
> Under robbing conditions, I'd expect serious robbing with this
> exposed honey and 50-60 supers standing on end (?) waiting for bees
> to abandon.
 
Well, robbing from an open source becomes a huge  problem mainly
when the open supply runs out, and the bees start to seek honey
everywhere.  If the supply is removed at dusk and the bees have the
night to settle down, things are much better.
 
If you can control robbing and you can move the boxes away quickly
when most of the bees are gone, and if the hives in the area are all
strong, and there are no neighbours with bees -- no problem.
Otherwise... Hmmm.  Quite a few 'if's in one statement!
 
BTW If you do this during mid day, you'll want to pick up the boxes
well before every last bee is gone, and be prepared to clean up with
brushing, shaking or a blower if necessary. The last few bees will
 leave the stacks as you prepare to drive away.  If you wait for them
all to be gone, you will not be able to complete.
 
I've never had a problem using the stacking technique, and can't
really see a problem using tipping -- if a flow is on.  If you are
uncertain or want to try it when robbing is possible (or certain) do
it late in the day until you build up confidence, so that if things go
awry, you can tidy up at dusk.
 
Disclaimer:  YYMV.
 
I am not recommending by describing these methods that the
unwary start a robbing frenzy, and caution those who are in areas
where robbing can turn into bedlam to be careful or people can be
stung, nucs can be robbed out, etc.
 
I've never kept bees where most of you live, so I sure can't predict
the outcome of trying abandonment during a dearth in your district.
Where I have bees, I am usually the only beekeeper for a mile or so,
so I don't have to worry about other peoples' bees participating
unexpectedly. Beekeeping neighbours will affect your decisions. Please
bee careful.
 
Regards
 
Allen
 
W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper                                         VE6CFK
RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta  Canada T0M 1Y0
Internet:[log in to unmask] & [log in to unmask]
Honey. Bees, & Art <http://www.internode.net/~allend/>