> Please correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it, neither swelling nor anaphylaxis is a *direct* effect of the antigens in venom -- those "effects" are a result of the body's immune response.

The simple answer is, no venom, no cell damage, no swelling, no anaphylaxis. Both Pete and Bill have corroborated this.

The question was, "what is immunity?" and I'm going to stick with my original reply, "an appropriate response to a given antigen." 

Remember, anaphylaxis is also IgE driven. So that is a direct response to the presence of an antigen to which the body has yet to produce type-specific antibodies.

A "cytokine storm," on the other hand, which we have been hearing so much about lately, is not necessarily antigen-related. That is not anaphylaxis, and has a key role in certain faulty repair syndromes like idiopathic pulmonary fibrosis and late-stage infections wherein the body has sustained significant tissue damage. That is your "repair gone haywire" scenario. It may also speak to the syndrome that Gene was describing.

Again, those in the know, please weigh in.

S

Skillman, NJ

             ***********************************************
The BEE-L mailing list is powered by L-Soft's renowned
LISTSERV(R) list management software.  For more information, go to:
http://www.lsoft.com/LISTSERV-powered.html