> One thing that comes to mind is honey bees surviving without treatment.
Many people claim to have them, but often produce no evidence, or else anecdotes and just so stories.


I see it as a bit different.  There are several making the TF claim, rather than assume they are wrong or lying,  I see it much more as a problem of the definition of TF.  When you dig deep you learn of a lot of splitting,  tiny hives,  free swarms,  and low honey numbers.

Just learned this week,  that a prominat TF guru is now down to "14 hives" from 100 plus a few years ago,  never takes more than a few pounds of honey for himself,  and cant make time from his day job to sell queens,  Yet is still a sought after speaker!

I have yet to hear of anyone credible claiming the "same hive" has survived long term,  rather they had a hive,  they split it the next season and they still have hives,  even though the original has died out, propagation being the key.   There do seem to be a few having some successes,  but hard to define as of yet.

To further our industry we need a clear definition of all the terms.  From resistance to tolerance to surviving.  We got a good definition of the hygienic behaviors,  and I believe the ankle biters even have a standard.  So for me  when I hear the claims,  my question is always to what level?

Randy has been very clear on his goals, but so far hes been the only one seriously talking about standards.

I had hoped Danny weaver would provide his measurements,  but alas,  we are still left wondering what those definitions really mean beyond the sales pitch concept.

I do hope at some point this all changes  I am all in favor of the goal, elusive though it may be.




Charles

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