Bill
>My guess is you are using the Bee Informed survey which also notes that
many if not most of those who do not treat are hobby beekeepers and have
the highest bee morality.<

Though you are correct that loss is more and most are more of hobby/sideliner, the multie state only has those losses at about 9percent higher then the treating bee keepers.  That is not that big of a hill and takes in the places that it just does not work in if we say location and luck in location seems to be a deciding factor.

Charles.

You mention solomon as a bad example and I was thinking more of squarepeg who has documented the last eight years on bee scource and is a twenty hive guy.  This year he made $600 per hive in mostly honey production and only sold one nuc.  His losses this year was 30% for the second time during this 8 year period but most years losses were much lower.  Of a member danial d in my state that has 25 hive/nucs and has only lost like two over the last 4 winters and had several hives make 100lbs and one hive make 200 lbs in a state that the average honey is listed as 50 lbs.

The point is not that every one does good or bad but more that with half doing it, some do good and some do bad on both sides and that can only be looked at case by case.  It can be guessed that some do as you say and don't want honey or don't manage thier bees just like a commercial guy might leave some of the worst hives sitting that he can't make almunds with sitting some place and spend his time consintrating on the ones that make money.

It insinuates that everyone has the same results depending on what side of the 50 percent of beekeepers they sit at.  

The whole point is that saying it is rare may not be the case.  I still say that almost all bee keepers keep bees for some product or service the be can render.  I do understand your point that book sales and speaking ingagements are not the product most bee keepers have bees for.
Cheers
gww

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