-----Original Message-----
From: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of randy oliver
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2017 8:43 AM


That claim is certainly graphic and alluring.  It is not difficult to test--simply open the first sealed cells of worker brood after a brood break. I have, and haven't observed it happening.  I've asked Mel about it, and it appears to be based upon something that he heard.from someone else.
Has anyone on the List confirmed it in the field?

Since you asked me,  I have not had a chance to investigate.   I have dropped this as a mite control method. Too much time on large scale.



Mites generally do not "seek" out a cell to enter--they are dependent upon the chance that the bee that they're riding on happens to feed a larva about to be capped over. 

??  that statement seems completely off base??  We know that mite levels are highest in the broodnest (confirmed by many mite washes)  and we also suspect that brood pheromones are heavily involved.  (patent we have discussed as evidence despite the death of the discoverer)  We know that somehow the do manage in great numbers to find the brood nest,  I don't suspect for a second its "strictly random".  






 And even if up to three foundresses enter a cell, there can still be a good number of mated daughters emerging. 

 Hold on,  are you sure?? When several mites enter the same cell,  are we sure that’s not enough to trigger even low levels of hygienic behavior?  Just because we haven't seen or documented it doesn't mean a thing.


> >Bottom line I am trying to say is adding a mated queen or even a 
> >queen
> cell to a split with capped brood  doesn't change the percentage of 
> mite load. You need that 15 day queen development period in the mix.

<However, there would be some loss due to the exit of bees dying of old age, and carrying mites.

<The bottom line is that making walkaway splits will not greatly reduce the mite load of the colony over that of its starting point.  However, it will <arrest increase from reproduction for roughly 24 days, during which the mite population would have increased by an estimated 1.5x due to reproduction.

<The combination of major splitting of the mite load, coupled with the break in reproduction, is apparently what makes Mel's method work.


I think there is  huge Key missing here,  be it some sort o high mite load in cells triggering hygenics,  to the foundress mites being too old to reproduce successfully,  the system works.   We know that.  From Seeleys work to Mels.(as well as thousands of others doing it)  I suspect in swarms the SMALL tiny central location of that first brood is an even bigger factor than in splits with drawn comb.  

Granted the climate here is much different,  but most of the time a self queening split in May is fine for mites going into winter.  More at play there I suspect than just a missed brood cycle for mite.   Granted,  I have not spent hours trying to work out the math,  just pretty sure what I see wouldn't survive simple math.


Charles

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