Charlie, I keep reading your call for standards, but similar to Pete, have no idea what you are hoping for, since there are so many seasonal and regional variables.  Yes, one can purchase corn seed specific for any soil type in most any region, but yields would still be dependent upon the weather, irrigation, and pest issues.

Could you please elaborate specifically on an example of the sort of "standard" that you are speaking of, so that we can discuss this intelligently?


Its difficult since it seems no one here is familiar with a lot of the AG standards.  Many times I forget how small that group really is,  I suffer a lot from the concept of thinking everyone knows what I know,  so I much appreciate the question.   


Like it or not corn is actually probably the closest to bees in thought process.  2 others and I had this conversation on the phone yesterday.  The regional issues and weather issue that plague farmers,  also hit us.  Although we can move a bit to better zones,  our crops yields are greatly affected from local weather and soil types.  That said,  I would not want to avoid the hog farmers concepts of back fat and days to market as a possible benchmark.


In queens for well over 100 years now,  our measurement was the size of the print add in the back of ABJ.  Every dang one of us looks and guesses.  To say otherwise is dishonest.  Be it looking and guessing at our own stock, or the pretty picture.  Some use references from others,  but the real truth is its by guess and by golly.

For the last 10 years I have gotten queens from everywhere,  quite literally.  Tested and checked and evaluated.  Turns out as most of us know,  not many clear winners or losers.  So how do we move the bar forward???

I don't have a solid answer,  I have some ideas,  Regional testing's.  Compared to "flight days" (which in corn is called "degree days") maybe?  Levels of brood production based on pollen proteins??  How does one correlate that with mating success which we all know can be key?    
What about pollen hoarders? Or proplis bees  both of which have markets.   And of course as we progress,  some real standard of mite restiance measurements.

Just thoughts out loud,  I am not the one guy to solve it.  Lot of great minds out there,  as I see it the problem is we are not asking the question.  And for the record I completely ABHOUR the method Dave Tarpy is proposing right now,  but at least it’s a thought in the right direction. Some sort of standard grading (Morphetrics are IMO horrible evaluations and comparisons)


In hogs we can compare one breed litter size,  back fat ratios and days to market for our methods,  or compare the same standards within breed to decide whos sperm to buy or guilts are best.  The concept of knowing which queen will make the best pollen producers  means a lot to someone,  same with any other traits.  Being able to set some real measurement system may allow us to improve the breeds.

I know some of you hate modern AG,  but if you look at corn yield charts  the rise is freaking awesome. Steady gains in the last 50 years.  Documented.  We still argue that queens today are completely inferior to the ones from Buckfast Abbey.  I find that deplorably ignorant. They may be better or worse,  the ignorant part is we don’t really know.  Many blame forage  is that true?  Are we maxed out??  Who knows.  At some point in the future I want to know.

My benchmark is a guy in OH.  A few years back I met this guy and he spouted honey numbers that I thought were complete crap.  Turns out he does it.  So I have my benchmark in my skills.   When I get his numbers consistently I will be happy.  But once my methods are perfected,  then what?  My yields will level.  I don't want that.

Hope that helps,  and thanks for the question.  Sometimes one wonders who listening and reading.  Any thought or ideas on standards are more than welcome.  Myself and some really smart friends are trying to brainstorm it ourselves.




Charles

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