No, I agree, and at first I thought maybe it was for slaughtering or at least cutting up and/or smoking due to the animal bone. I was actually referring to it as “smoke house” before the sloping floor and the nature of the fill became evident, which is when the real questioning began.
I think this could point to one potential issue: Sanborns routinely label a structure at the rear of a lot by an alley as a stable (later auto garage) and in fact the map makers may have had no idea of the actual use of any particular outbuilding.
I don’t think the architectural historian would say you are crazy. I asked her if she thought it could be a summer kitchen, but she wasn’t sure why there would be one this far north. Clearly we have them here, though, certainly in rural areas.
Misty
> On Jun 5, 2021, at 1:27 PM, Timothy James Scarlett <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> I’d also look into slaughter houses, Misty. What I know of those is from larger industrial examples (and all through reading, as I have no direct experiences). That drain system is so substantial, it seems awfully large and robust for an urban stable. Maybe they were slaughtering, or at least cutting up quartered beef? Your architecture person will tell you that I’m crazy!
> Tim
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jun 5, 2021, at 12:12 PM, Misty Jackson <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Tim,
>>
>> A few fragments of wood came from the north side, and yes the floor is steep enough there would need to have been a floor above it to make it at all comfortable to stand on. There were no beam sills for joists that were evident, but more than likely the upper levels of brick where you would find these were removed during the post-1998 demolition. All of the homes and the stables as indicated by the Sanborns were constructed of brick on this block. Despite brick supposedly not serving as a good foundation material, the footings/foundations were quite intact, but everything at ground level and below to about about 20 cm had been removed.
>>
>> Misty
>>
>>
>>> On Jun 4, 2021, at 10:17 PM, Timothy James Scarlett <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Misty- I’ve little experience with barns and stables, but I’d agree with Silas. A soil sample for chemical analysis from the drain would be very telling to rule out washing out urine and manure.
>>>
>>> Looking at that picture, I notice the slope of the floor is rather steep. I assume there was a wooden floor that spanned over the subfloor surface you have exposed. As least, that would be my guess and I’d check the foundation remains for signs of a beam sill or sockets for joists.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Tim
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>>> On Jun 4, 2021, at 9:33 PM, [log in to unmask] wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Have you considered soil chemical analysis for phosphates and nitrates?
>>>>
>>>> Silas Hurry
>>>> Curator Emeritus, Historic St. Mary's City
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 06/04/2021 8:35 PM Misty Jackson <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear HISTARCH-ers,
>>>>>
>>>>> I recently uncovered a foundation along an alley at 269 Winder, Detroit that the Sanborns indicate was the location of a stable, later turned garage. The area of Detroit in which it is located was platted in the 1853 and 1862, and according to a Detroit architectural historian with whom I work, the area was one to which at least middle and possibly higher classes moved from out of old Detroit at the time. The foundation measures 11ft by 8ft and is constructed of brick for the foundation/footings and brick and sandstone flooring. The floor slopes from four directions down toward what appears to be a drain, though its base is also constructed of brick. Here is a link to a photo for those interested (you may have to paste it in your browser):
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/mmjackson/51226470050/in/dateposted-public/ <https://www.flickr.com/photos/mmjackson/51226470050/in/dateposted-public/>
>>>>>
>>>>> I’ve showed this to other Detroit archaeologists, who have not come across anything similar. The manager of the Michigan State University Horse Teaching farm with whom I spoke recently is not familiar with 19th c. stables but said that a wood floor in stables is the norm with sometimes a drain at the rear of the stall for urine. The location of the drain at 269 Winder is near a side rather than where it seems the rear would have been, but for now the best interpretation appears to be a stable floor with a drain that would have laid under a (wood) stall floor.
>>>>>
>>>>> If anyone has seen anything similar in their work or in a publication, or has a better idea of what this might have functioned as, please let me know.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Misty
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Misty Jackson, Ph.D., RPA 16457
>>>>> Arbre Croche Cultural Resources LLC
>>>>> 214 S Main Street
>>>>> Leslie, Michigan 49251
>>>>> 517-525-3060
>>>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>>> arbrecroche.com
>>>>> Center for Maritime and Underwater Resource Management
>>>>> cmurm.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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