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Subject:
From:
James Fischer <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Mon, 18 Jul 2016 08:21:41 -0400
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It should be made clear at the outset that the authors of the cited paper
take pains to differentiate between "subjective experience", which is all
that they speculate about, and "Consciousness", a question which they
specifically disclaim as something about which they "don't yet have the
concepts for assessing what a satisfying answer could even look like." (pg
12)

But even the speculation in this paper about insects having "subjective
experiences" is very very tentative. 

Quoting the cited study:

"We ARGUE THAT the insect brain supports functions analogous to those of the
vertebrate midbrain and hence that insects MAY ALSO HAVE a capacity for
subjective experience." (Abstract)

This is a very tentative suggestion, a highly speculative proposition.  

> the capacity to use mental images is one of the 
> hallmarks of consciousness, 

True.

> and honey bees clearly do this.

FALSE - for now, this is still pure speculation, little more than
anthropomorphization.  The authors do not even use the phrase "mental
image".  Quoting from the cited paper:

"We have not attempted to say anything about the hard problem of
consciousness (Chalmers, 1996)" (pg 12)

[Translation: Even we will not go further than "subjective experience".  To
claim "consciousness" is going too far.]

"The functional parallels between the vertebrate midbrain and insect brains
form the centerpiece of our argument. While there is no obvious similarity
in the gross anatomy, there is an overall similarity in functional
architecture." (pg 5)

[Translation:  We are making comparisons are not even supported by gross
anatomy!]

"We have argued that subjective experience arose as a consequence of the
integrated behavioral control systems for effective decision making and
action selection." (pg 8)

[Translation: We phrase it this way because there is no one else to cite as
making or agreeing with this argument]

"Our argument depends on functional claims about the insect brain." (pg 9)

[Translation: Remember above, where we postulated "functional parallels"
between vertebrate and insect brains?  We admit here that we are going out
on a limb by making these claims.]

"Of course, we might be wrong." (pg 12)

[Translation:  Because we are just riffing here on speculation.]

"We might have left out other neural features that are necessary for
subjective experience, such as an explicit representation of a temporal
dimension (Kant, 1999). Insects may lack these (though see Skorupski &
Chittka, 2006)." (pg 12)

[Translation: Yeah, and the number of neurons in insect brains is just a tad
limited, too.]

"We have a similar take on the hard problem [of consciousness]: It is
difficult because we don't yet have the concepts for assessing what a
satisfying answer could even look like." (pg 12)

So if these neurologists do not even have the ability to assess what an
"answer could even look like", if follows that the title of this thread, and
subject of this discussion "Consciousness in animals" is impossible to apply
to insects at this point, moreso for beekeepers who are not accredited
researchers in neurology.

Time and again, we have found that bees use simple rules individually, and
that it is simple numbers that seem to make their behavior seem "emergent".
I often call them "God's wind-up toys".  We are a long way from calling them
conscious beings. 

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