> Neonics are DESIGNED as a much more targeted pesticide.  Targeted to mean not getting on species other than the intended pest.

Flaw in the design then - they are certainly damaging bumblebees and probably doing even more damage to solitary bees - an area that we know so little about.  Seems that honey bees are usually able to survive by sheer force of numbers, but honey crops are probably reduced.

We have seen a general improvement in the condition of our bees since the EU moratorium came into place.  I would be over the moon if they were banned permanently.


Pete,  unfortunately your  twisting some things around here.  There are 2  factors here.  Neonics as seed coatings,  and as foliar sprays.  One may indeed be better or worse than the other,  and I am all for monitoring both and seeing if one or the other should be changed in usages.


What bothers me more is a cpl of words you use there  "probably"???  your use of that surprises me.

The other is "general improvement"  based on what???  Having a better season?  Weather is a factor that’s 100 times more prevalent in both solitary bees and honeybees than pesticides.  
Take this season here in my area for example.  Solitary bees that nest in the ground are taking a hammering and set way back.   Lots of rain is drowning out nest.(flood levels in most areas)  if you read and study solitary bees,  you see that spring buildup is a huge factor in the numbers and growth.  One season can have low numbers and the very next high. Winter temps (queen survival)  and spring forage are more indicators than anything else.   

Randy had recommended a good book on bumbles last year (can't recall the name)  The author documented these rise and falls in an area with no ag.


 The assertion of honey bees surviving by sheer force is nonsense.  Honey bees are thriving.  And MANY MANY MANY  in hive test show no Neonics in the hives deep in our ag areas.  In fact most of our top honey states here are strongly AG and Neonics use areas.  Are their exceptions?  certainly  Just like beekeepers who still use everything in the book for mites.  Planter dust and improperly used foliar sprays are known issues.


Charles

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