Keith and All,
Looks like everyone has referenced the basic works on the topic. As Silas points out, we generally have looked more for the marks found inside turned leads
rather than their overall dimensions. A lot of them we find are twisted and crumpled up, which probably distorts other dimensions.

One possible source to consider is the Roosevelt Inlet Site. This is a maritime site and dates to the late 1770s, early 1780s. The turned leads from that site were much wider, and presumably "deeper" than those we see from 17th century contexts.
Not sure what their current status is. To my knowledge, they have not been conserved or opened to see if there are any maker's or vice marks inside. They were, however, in good condition and the dimensional data could be collected pretty easily. I suggest checking with
Paul Nasca at DHCA. He could possibly find out more for you.

Chuck

> On February 22, 2018 at 6:02 PM [log in to unmask] wrote:
>
>
> I am home hence no handy references.
>
> First - Thanks Dennis for the shout out - Susan Hanna published an article in Post Medieval Archaeology with Barry Knight and the great, late Geoff Eagan on marked window leads, and as fate would have it, Tim Riordan recently published an article in Northeast Historical Archaeology on the subject. However, both articles were focused on the marks rather than metrics on the leads. One of the first good articles was written by Isabel Davies and published in "Five Artifact Studies" by Colonial Williamsburg. I cannot recall if she looked at metrics.
>
> Remember that the form and shape of the lead was the result of taking a came and running it through a machine called a glazier's vice which actually imparted the marks and determined the final dimensions of what is then properly called a turned lead. The Connecticut Historical Society actually has a glazier's vice in their collection-I think Tim may have illustrated in his recent article as did Hanna et al in Post-med.
>
> The most important dimension should be the "inter-glass" spacing since with the quarrels this would determine the actual size of the window. I "feel" there is a bit of variation in how "deeply" the glass is set in the lead, but most crafts people are very rational in the use of expensive material so I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't a reasonable standard.
>
> I tend to think of casement windows as being superseded by sash windows by mid-18th c. Is there evidence for a casement?
>
> Silas
>
>
> > On February 22, 2018 at 5:04 PM Jim Gibb <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> >
> > It may be worth doing, but I would draw a sample, recalculate the various measures of central tendency and graph them as you go, and look for that point at which those measures stabilize. Then look at the raw data and distributions for each variable and see if the measurements actually say anything useful, keeping in mind the design tolerances under which glaziers operated. I bet a millimeter or two variance, even if you have a bimodal distribution, will not be meaningful. Unfortunately, very few of the dies from the extruders likely survive...they would be worth measuring.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Jim Gibb
> > Gibb Archaeological Consulting
> > Annapolis, MD
> > [log in to unmask]
> > 410.693.3847
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Keith Doms <[log in to unmask]>
> > To: HISTARCH <[log in to unmask]>
> > Sent: Thu, Feb 22, 2018 4:28 pm
> > Subject: Re: Lead window cames
> >
> > But if you open them up to read them you should be able to measure an arm and the height. Something that I never thought about doing until now.
> >
> > Keith R. Doms
> > Newlin Grist Mill
> > Site Manager
> > 219 S. Cheyney Rd.
> > Glen Mills, PA 19342
> > (610) 459-2359
> > [log in to unmask]
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jim Gibb [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> > Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2018 4:16 PM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: Lead window cames
> >
> > We don't measure them at my operation. My sense of them, having looked at many, is that there is little measurable variability when we take the crushed, soft lead into consideration. Virtually all I have seen date (by association or marked date) to the second half of the 17th and first quarter of the 18th century.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Jim Gibb
> > Gibb Archaeological Consulting
> > Annapolis, MD
> > [log in to unmask]
> > 410.693.3847
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Keith Doms <[log in to unmask]>
> > To: HISTARCH <[log in to unmask]>
> > Sent: Thu, Feb 22, 2018 4:09 pm
> > Subject: Lead window cames
> >
> > Here is question about window leads. Has anyone out there recorded the widths and dimensions of window leads? I have opened them up to read the insides but don't ever remember trying to record the functional dimensions of the cames. I am now charged with reproducing mid 18th C windows but my references have no measurements. Anyone?
> >
> > Keith R. Doms
> > Newlin Grist Mill
> > Site Manager
> > 219 S. Cheyney Rd.
> > Glen Mills, PA 19342
> > (610) 459-2359
> > [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> >
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