I found Jim's description of the New York newbees to simply be an accurate
scientific observation of a dominant subset of idealistic beginning
beekeepers.  A very similar population exists in California.  Many I count
as friends and go out of my way to support them, as they remind me very
much of my generation in the younger day.  The last thing that I want to
stifle is idealism, experimenting, and trying various options.

But as Jim points out, idealism is most productive when grounded in facts
and validated by real-life experience.  When I was that age, I sought out
and hung with elders who had already been there and tried that.  Such
learning from others' experience gave me a head start over those who had to
learn everything the hard way (not that there was still any lack of things
to learn the hard way).  I still try to extract valuable nuggets of
hard-won practical knowledge from every experienced that I meet.

An ethical question arises when we are selling nucs.  Sometimes my sons ask
me why I sell our precious bees, lovingly raised, to those whom we know
will let them die due to idealistic neglect or some whacked-out idea that
we already know will lead to the bees' ugly death.  That's a tough one for
me.


On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 12:52 PM, Robin Dartington <
[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>  James wrote : <This is the kind of thing that is presented or proposed to
> me almost every
> > other month in NYC by yet another group of earnest, heavily bearded,
> > painfully young men and earnest, very intense, fast-talking young women
> with
> > slightly less body hair.  >
>
> Shame on you James!
>
> You are super intelligent and make huge efforts to de-engineer '
> scientific' reports to show they are not scientific.  When presented with
> an intensely advocated alternative approach to beekeeping you resort only
> to racism - assuming excessive bodily hair is a characteristic of some
> alien race embedded in the US.
>
> You can do better.  We have not met but  I bet you can out-talk any fast
> speaking female and not justly patronise them because you  are  better
> informed.
>
> These advocates  indicate a deep seated concern at the way the world is
> going - which I share.  They feel forced to express an alternative.  I have
> expressed my own,  a system I call New Beekeeping, far less radical. Only a
> new presentation of old principles, updated for modern conditions. I lack
> missionary zeal so it is followed by only a few disciples throughout UK.
> These people dare openly addressing the problems using the media.
>
> It would be a huge service if you would use your usual analytical skills
> to de- engineer what they believe, pick out the truths, pick out the
> misunderstandings, consider the aims and how those might be advanced if the
> misunderstandings were corrected. They need help to achieve credibility. In
> my view they deserve it, as part of the generation that is inheriting a
> damaged planet due to the selfish over- indulgence of my - and your -
>  generation over the last 50 years.
>
> Some might even be your own grandchildren, or friends of grandchildren of
> your friends, let's not have a generation cut off on Beel-L.
>
> Robin
>
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-- 
Randy Oliver
Grass Valley, CA
www.ScientificBeekeeping.com

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