Carol,

At this time anyone can join the listserve
http://lists.nonprofit.net/mailman/listinfo/acra-l, and ACRA membership is
not expensive, $85/year for an Associate or a sliding scale based on gross
receipts for corporations 
http://acra-crm.org/displaycommon.cfm?an=1&subarticlenbr=213. 

Al Tonetti
ACRA Board member

-----Original Message-----
From: HISTORICAL ARCHAEOLOGY [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Carol
McDavid
Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 10:42 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: ACHP appointment issues--hold on a minute

First.a question for Mark.  Can a non-member of ACRA join the listserv? I
can't afford to join ACRA -- I run a very small nonprofit and just don't
have the income, and ACRA is expensive. But I take your point, Mark, that
ACRA is a terrific resource. So can I join it? If so, can you let me know
off-list?

As to the other, I was just lurking until now...but would like to suggest
that the broader topic (NOT the personal commentary about a specific
colleague)  is entirely appropriate for this list. I have never seen this
list as ONLY about practice -- even though that is indeed one of its
strengths, as Mark says. But completely separating practice from the context
in which it takes place (legislative, social, cultural, policy, geographic,
etc.) would mean that we wouldn't be able to talk about relevancy and ethics
on this list at all.

That said, Anita owns the list, so if she decides that the list is "about"
practice and only practice, that's her choice! I still learn a lot from list
and will continue to do so! In that case, as Nan R and Bill Moss suggested,
perhaps another setting would be better - like SHA in Quebec!

Because the questions are important, and perhaps expandable, I would like to
recap of some of Catherine's questions in bullet form -- deleting all
references to previous individual critiques, and expanding the context
somewhat:

- What constitutes consultation? [As someone who does African American
archaeology -- I "consult" all the time, but in a non-mandated context. That
has its own set of challenges.]
- What do CRM professionals need to do to complete a reasonable and good
faith effort to understand the values a tribe or other community ascribes to
a cultural resource? 
- Is it enough to read the literature? [And even if so, what literature?
Only anthropological or archaeological? Or the wider literature -- say, that
written by African American scholars about their own culture?]
- What if the tribe [group] in the area of a project was poorly studied?
- Are federal [and state] agencies doing a good job getting the data they
need to make decisions? [Especially in current funding climates, national
and state/local. For example Texas the SHPO  staff has been cut back
severely -- due to politics by the way-- and it's very difficult for staff
to provide the same coverage they used to, although they work very hard to
do so. It's difficult for someone to continue to do a "good job" when they
have to start working 12-hour days just to keep their heads above water].
- Are "tribal" concerns somehow outside of what should be considered
"historical archaeology"? [that expanded what Catherine said, I realize, so
apologies for taking liberties, or if I misunderstood!]

I think those are important questions. However, even if they are OK to
discuss here (Anita will make that call), the discussion needs to avoid both
the sarcastic snarkiness (and, although somewhat understandable, the
defensiveness) that it has had so far.

Back to lurk mode now.

Carol

*****************************
Carol McDavid, Ph.D.
Executive Director, Community Archaeology Research Institute, Inc.
Adjunct Assistant Professor, Rice University Secretary, Society for
Historical Archaeology
1638 Branard
Houston, TX
www.publicarchaeology.org 

-----Original Message-----
From: HISTORICAL ARCHAEOLOGY [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
Branstner, Mark C
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2013 9:09 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: ACHP appointment issues--hold on a minute

Catherine,

May I suggest that you take a look at joining ACRA-L and monitoring their
commentary, which addresses these issues on a regular basis, and you will
often get the benefit of Dr. King's commentary on a first-person basis.

IMHO, the strength of this list over the years has been it's informational
content relative to the "practice" of historical archaeology, i.e.,
comparison of data sets, sharing of information, and querying our peers.
There are other venues for hashing out social policy, legislative intent,
and the conflicting interests of various stakeholders. Personally, I really
do hope that HISTARCH-L can stay out of the more socio-political aspects of
the process, unless it is absolutely germane to a specific historic period
resource.


Again, just my perspective.

Regards, 

Mark
___________________________________

Mark C. Branstner, RPA
Historical Archaeologist

Illinois State Archaeological Survey
Prairie Research Institute
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
209 Nuclear Physics Lab, MC-571
23 East Stadium Drive
Champaign, IL 61820

Phone: 217.244.0892
Fax: 217.244.7458
Cell: 217.549.6990
[log in to unmask]

"Mongo only pawn in game of life."  Mongo.






On 3/4/13 8:55 PM, "Catherine Dickson" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>Histarch,I'm sorry but I'm not quite ready to give up on this subject. 
>I think Fred McGhee was taking an opportunity to make an important point.
>What constitutes consultation?  What do CRM professionals need to do to 
>complete a reasonable and good faith effort to understand the values a 
>tribe or other community ascribes to a cultural resource?  Is it enough 
>to read the literature?  What if the tribe in the area of a project was 
>poorly studied?  What if the anthropologist who studied that group 100 
>years ago was really more interested in the tribe next door?  Is it 
>appropriate for private CRM firms to engage with tribes?  Are federal 
>agencies doing a good job getting the data they need to make 
>decisions?I don't know anything about Lynne Sebastian. I did not know 
>she had been nominated to the ACHP until I heard she had been sworn in.
>I do know about poor consultation and I think our field should take it
seriously.
>The ACHP has put together a handbook about working with tribes but I've 
>never known anyone except tribes to refer to it. While I'm on my 
>soapbox, let's not think we are disqualified because we focus on the
historic era.
>As an archaeologist working for an Indian tribe over the past 15 years, 
>dozens of agencies have suggested that my employer doesn't care about 
>historic sites. I always get them to agree that the tribal folks were 
>around a long time ago and that they are here now. Just what part of 
>history isn't theirs?  Oregon Trail sites, mining sites, railroad 
>sites, etc. are all vividly reflected in oral histories and play large, 
>if often destructive, roles in the tribe's history.  Not to mention the 
>historic sites occupied by tribal members.So as McGhee said, let's talk 
>about the CRM issues that have come up, not the specific case, people, 
>or tribe and see if we don't end up better able to protect the 
>resources we're passionate about. Catherine Dickson
>> Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2013 16:11:54 -0700
>> From: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: ACHP and Appointment of Dr. Lynne Sebastian
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> 
>> And, as ListOwner I agree with Jeff. Please talk to each other 
>>offlist as  this discussion is now a dead horse.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Anita Cohen-Williams
>> ListOwner of Histarch, Sub-Arch, and Spanbord
> 		 	   		  


-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.2899 / Virus Database: 2641/6147 - Release Date: 03/04/13