Which is exactly what my "Steve" was saying.
(see previous L O N G reply to Histarch from me...)
-----Original Message-----
From: Branstner, Mark C
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2016 3:13 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: great local debate
The point that Matt was trying to make is whether or not carbonized product
would be transportable over long distances in corked stoneware bottles. And
I agree with him, that the long-term storage of a carbonized product in such
a vessel is highly problematic. Compare a stoneware jug closure to a classic
champagne closure, which has a massive cork, jammed in with significant
force, and then wired in place. That is not the kind of closure that would
have been possible in a classic Selters stoneware bottle – IMHO. I am
agreeing with Matt that the marketed mineral water was either ‘still’ or
very, very finely and lightly carbonated as a natural product – not
carbonized ala champagne, or even beer in British stoneware bottles, which
were also wired shut.
_____________________________________________________________
Mark C. Branstner, RPA
Senior Historical Archaeologist (Retired)
Illinois State Archaeological Survey,
Prairie Research Institute, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Great Lakes Research, LLC
1116 Dodge St., Lake Geneva, WI 53147
217.549.6990 / [log in to unmask]
On 6/17/16, 3:42 PM, "HISTORICAL ARCHAEOLOGY on behalf of Lucy Wayne"
<[log in to unmask] on behalf of [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>The Selters web page says they have both carbonated and still waters, but
>not clear whether that was always the case.
>
>Lucy Wayne
>SouthArc, Inc.
>Gainesville, FL
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: HISTORICAL ARCHAEOLOGY [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Cross,
>Matthew
>Sent: Friday, June 17, 2016 3:25 PM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: great local debate
>
>The Selters water is a naturally sparkling, sodium bicarbonate mineral
>water, but I cannot say whether or not the bottle closures allowed for the
>retention of the bubbles. If had to wager a guess, I would say the final
>product for the consumer would be still mineral water. There is nothing to
>suggest an air tight closure was employed. The branding on the bottles
>appears to be explicitly for the water. However, there also appears to be a
>strong secondary/aftermarket use of the bottles for alcohol exporting,
>specifically gin.
>
>
>-Matt
>______________________________________________
>
>Matthew E. Cross
>Archaeological Assistant — Historic Section
>
>Illinois State Archaeological Survey
>Prairie Research Institute
>University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
>209 Nuclear Physics Lab, MC-571
>23 East Stadium Drive
>Champaign, IL 61820
>
>217.300.3060
>[log in to unmask]
>
>
>
>
>
>On 6/17/16, 11:51 AM, "HISTORICAL ARCHAEOLOGY on behalf of Susan Walter"
><[log in to unmask] on behalf of [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>>So you are saying all of these bottles were originally made to be used
>>for mineral water?
>>Are you saying they held CARBONATED or NON carbonated waters ORIGINALLY?
>>It’s the carbonation thing we're debating out here.
>>
>>My personal experience with all these fluids is weak.
>>Carbonation makes me sick, and I don't nor ever have drunk alcoholic
>>beverages. Even the thimble full of communion wine used to make me
>>throw up.
>>
>>But I want to reiterate:
>>So you are saying all of these bottles were originally made to be used
>>for mineral water?
>>Are you saying they held CARBONATED or NON carbonated waters ORIGINALLY?
>>It’s the carbonation thing we're debating out here.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>S. Walter
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Cross, Matthew
>>Sent: Friday, June 17, 2016 6:46 AM
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: Re: great local debate
>>
>>While the bottles were originally filled with mineral water, they were
>>often reused for booze. A polish shipwreck contained a number of these
>>bottles intact and still corked. What did they contain? Gin.
>>http://www.livescience.com/47382-shipwreck-alcohol-bottle-discovered.ht
>>ml
>>
>>
>>-Matt
>>______________________________________________
>>
>>Matthew E. Cross
>>Archaeological Assistant ‹ Historic Section
>>
>>Illinois State Archaeological Survey
>>Prairie Research Institute
>>University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
>>209 Nuclear Physics Lab, MC-571
>>23 East Stadium Drive
>>Champaign, IL 61820
>>
>>217.300.3060
>>[log in to unmask]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>On 6/16/16, 4:14 PM, "HISTORICAL ARCHAEOLOGY on behalf of Susan Walter"
>><[log in to unmask] on behalf of [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>>>June 16, 2016
>>>Hi All,
>>>Regarding those tall, cylindrical stoneware bottles, specifically
>>>those marked ³SELTERS² did they contain carbonated fluids? I¹ve heard
>>>they did NOT from one person, but others say yes they did. My various
>>>sources say the contents included mineral water, wine, rum, gin, ale, and
>>>seltzer.
>>>Many thanks as always,
>>>S. Walter
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