My apologies to anyone who doesn't care what I have to say and would rather abandon the listserv than choose to ignore an email.
Thanks Mark,
I understand your point, I can only speak from my own experiences. I and many of my cohort/peers from archaeology as well as anthropology in general are struggling to find work or even afford a place to live. At that point, suggesting that one drop a few hundred dollars on transportation, membership, entry, food, childcare, etc to attend a conference to make professional contacts and build a career is absurd. I may as well get a job as a fast food manager. I can start out making nearly the same income, I don't have to pay to travel and schmooze to "get into the profession", and I won't need to travel 90% of my life away from family for a position that may end at anytime without notice. Of course, my passion isn't in burgers and fries. Of course I have made my decisions to be an archaeologist because it is what I love. However, that doesn't mean I should stop expressing my discontent with an elitist hierarchical system that, for me and many students that I know, is inequitable. I appreciate that many attendees are tired of receiving emails about this issue. I would recommend that they either recommend a better forum for this discussion to continue or do what they would do when any other topic that is of little interest to them is discussed: ignore it and move on. I am not berating anyone's decision to go to conferences. I am only explaining how even cheap registration doesn't make another hurdle in the archaeological gauntlet much less burdensome(as there are numerous other related expenses). I do see the use of conferences, I just feel that the level of economic and temporal sacrifice in this field is rarely returned in economic form for most of us by matter of course(90%+ is CRM, which is a hierarchical pyramid).
Best,
David L Cook
On May 16, 2013, at 10:43 AM, "Branstner, Mark C" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> David Cook stated:
>
> "Conferences remain unavailable to many, if not most, archaeologists and
> definitely to most students."
>
> I understand your meaning, but the fact is, your statement is largely and
> demonstrably false. The "Conference" system exists at all levels -- local,
> regional, national, and international -- and remains the fundamental focus
> for face-to-face, peer-to-peer interaction for the exchange of
> information, and perhaps more importantly, the maintenance of the
> academic/social networks that are so critical to what we do.
>
> Local and regional conference are eminently available to ALL participants
> ... And these are the ideal venues for avocational types and students to
> familiarize themselves with the discipline, and to cut their professional
> teeth. It is these face-to-face encounters (and confrontations) that make
> all this electronic data sharing possible ... I would argue.
>
> I would point out the Midwest Historical Archaeology Conference -- a
> one-day annual meeting that is designed primarily for student
> participation (kudos to Michael Nassaney for mentoring). How about the
> always rambunctious Midwest Archaeological Conference or the Plains
> Conference? Generally affordable, accessible, and eminently worthwhile.
> And I assume that there are comparable venues throughout the country.
>
> Are national and international meetings too expensive? Perhaps, but nobody
> HAS to attend these, and nobody has to attend them EVERY year ...
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> ___________________________________
>
> Mark C. Branstner, RPA
> Senior Historical Archaeologist
>
> Illinois State Archaeological Survey
> Prairie Research Institute
> University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
> 209 Nuclear Physics Lab, MC-571
> 23 East Stadium Drive
> Champaign, IL 61820
>
> Phone: 217.244.0892
> Fax: 217.244.7458
> Cell: 217.549.6990
> [log in to unmask]
>
> "Mongo only pawn in game of life." Mongo.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 5/16/13 8:41 AM, "David L Cook" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> It is unfortunate that individuals cannot simply opt out of the
>> conversation rather than being removed from the listserv entirely. Conrad
>> is being stubborn and refusing to accept a difference of opinion, but
>> every time someone opts out of the listserv HISTARCH becomes a little
>> less useful.
>>
>> Conferences remain unavailable to many, if not most, archaeologists and
>> definitely to most students. Regardless, I don't think they should be
>> eliminated entirely. I also don't think anyone cares too much about my
>> opinion. It saddens me each time I see someone withdraw from this network
>> of communication.
>>
>> Best,
>> David L Cook
>>
>> On May 15, 2013, at 11:06 PM, Brian Mabelitini <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>>> I for one have had enough of my inbox filling up with Conrad's stupid
>>> rants every time someone advertises a professional conference. HISTARCH
>>> is a great resource for the disciple, but I would like to please be
>>> removed from the listserv.
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>> Brian Mabelitini
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On May 15, 2013, at 10:28 PM, "sent" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Again matters not who pays what- ok instead of wasteful outdated
>>>> extravagant conferences each and every one donate the same money to a
>>>> fund to preserve, and create jobs and help the resource-
>>>> IMHO that¹s where the money is needed and not in the stupid conference
>>>> industry.....just my opinion.....
>>>>
>>>> I condemn stupidity in the face of need and want unemployment and
>>>> homelessness and for me the work comes first not some silly
>>>> conference.....
>>>>
>>>> In our present economic climate such diversion of money to conferences
>>>> is cruel, inhumane ill advised- shame be on such waste!
>>>>
>>>> Remember doing with out conferences does not in any way mean limiting
>>>> communication and information exchange or learning.
>>>>
>>>> Having to find other less expensive forms would actually mean more
>>>> exchange and more communication
>>>>
>>>> Simply put EVOLVE
>>>> And have compassion for those out of work, for the resource and for
>>>> new students who's jobs and resources you are sucking up- just to feel
>>>> good!
>>>>
>>>> Turn around now- the public is watching-people are doing without so
>>>> you can feel good
>>>>
>>>> Shame
>>>>
>>>> Conrad Bladey
>>>> Archeologist
>>>> peasant
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Lewis C Jones
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 10:03 PM
>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>> Subject: Re: Why YOU should come to SHA Quebec 2014
>>>>
>>>> Conrad,
>>>> You argue that we should think of the homeless and unemployed as
>>>> getting rid of conferences is needed to preserve jobs, but the fact
>>>> remains that you don't have to go to a conference if you don't want to
>>>> and if you really believe that getting rid of conferences will create
>>>> jobs then you need to show us the research that supports this claim as
>>>> I don¹t tend to feel that it is the case. All professions and I
>>>> consider anthropology a profession and not just a job, have conferences
>>>> to exchange ideas and to get the latest information going on in the
>>>> field. Can we try and provide some of this electronically? Yes and it
>>>> is being done. But technology is not something that is altogether user
>>>> friendly and to have the ability to do what you suggest would mean a
>>>> great amount of money to create the infrastructure needed. Are you
>>>> willing to provide that startup capital? Do you have any idea of what
>>>> it costs to have the technology along with the redundancy needed to
>>>> prevent potential
>> g
>>> li
>>>> tches and loss of connectivity that can occur with something as simple
>>>> as a solar flare ? Technology cannot at this time provide the same
>>>> access for large amounts of people to connect as a conference can and
>>>> does provide. I speak on this as someone who worked for over 15 years
>>>> in IT before going back to school to become an anthropologist. I
>>>> suggest that before you condemn us for attending conferences that
>>>> instead you come up with a viable alternative providing research and
>>>> data that shows that it can be done and done economically and without
>>>> needs to raise hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars to
>>>> create the dedicated technology that would be needed to host such a
>>>> meeting. Yes the technology does exist but not at a price our
>>>> professional organizations could afford after all we don't have stock
>>>> holders or even a products that generates hundreds of millions of
>>>> dollars that would be needed. If your real complaint is that you don't
>>>> go to conference's because yo
>> u
>>> t
>>>> hink it is too expensive, well then that is a valid argumen!
>>>> t for wh
>>>> y you don't attend, but that doesn't mean you have the right to vilify
>>>> and criticize those of us who save up to go to the few conferences we
>>>> choose to attend. I am not rich by any means and choose where and when
>>>> to go and choose based upon my interests. What we pay for conference
>>>> attendance is actually quite small compared to other professions. My
>>>> spouse is a veterinarian and when she attends a conference she pays for
>>>> it, sometimes her clinic might help with travel, but the bulk of it is
>>>> on her and as a professional she is required to attend conference's as
>>>> that is where she can learn about the newest information for her field
>>>> and gain continuing education -credit. Her cost for just the
>>>> conference is about 5 - 6 times what we pay and I am basing this on the
>>>> non-student rate. Their hotel costs are higher as well and they
>>>> understand that it is part of being a professional. We are not the only
>>>> profession with conferences, but we are one of the few that does try to
>>>> keep the
>>
>>> co
>>>> sts low and look for venues and times that will make it more
>>>> affordable to all. As a student I have paid for my conferences and
>>>> there are times when I have volunteered to help to help lower my costs
>>>> as well. But in the end it is my choice to go or not and no one makes
>>>> us pay to go to a conference it is something we choose to do and in my
>>>> case I choose to go because I feel it allows me to network and become
>>>> more closely connected with current and future colleagues and
>>>> collaborators on the work we should love to do because it is a calling
>>>> and not a job.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Lewis C Jones
>>>> PhD. Candidate IUB / Adjunct Faculty IUPUI
>>>> Indiana University
>>>> Anthropology Department
>>>> Student Building 130
>>>> 701 E. Kirkwood Avenue
>>>> Bloomington, IN 47405-7100
>>>> USA
>>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>> tel:
>>>> fax:
>>>> mobile:
>>>> Skype ID:
>>>> (812) 855-1041
>>>> (812) 855-4358
>>>> (317) 490-2047
>>>> clovis_cathmor
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Want to always have my latest info?
>>>> Want a signature like this?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: HISTORICAL ARCHAEOLOGY [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
>>>> sent
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 9:13 PM
>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>> Subject: Re: Why YOU should come to SHA Quebec 2014
>>>>
>>>> Of course you can do what you want- but think of the unemployed, the
>>>> homeless and the needs of the resource before you attend or support
>>>> spending of this magnitude simply to communicate, which can be done
>>>> easily, simply-without great expense.
>>>>
>>>> Why are we creating jobs in the convention and entertainment industry
>>>> when our obligation is to create jobs in archeology and spend our money
>>>> on our obligations to the resource. Absurd!
>>>>
>>>> If you stay away the only losers will be the fat cat hotel and
>>>> conference people-believe me they don¹t put THEIR money into archeology!
>>>> Other equally wonderful channels of communication will easily take its
>>>> place- there will be no information lost, Just jobs maintained and
>>>> created- work can be funded, the resource needs addressed- or well
>>>> then you can just have a good time.....go figure...please!
>>>>
>>>> It is far too big a slice of funds available these days to remain so.
>>>> Our public deserves economy. We have to do more with less, we have to
>>>> do the same with less. Cut now before we loose more jobs and
>>>> opportunities.
>>>>
>>>> Conrad Bladey
>>>> Archeologist
>>>> Peasant
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Timothy K. Perttula
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 6:20 PM
>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>> Subject: Re: Why YOU should come to SHA Quebec 2014
>>>>
>>>> A lot of time and wasted e-mail ink has been spent discussing this
>>>> issue. It is a professional and personal decision about whether one
>>>> attends a conference like SHA or not. If someone doesn't want to
>>>> attend, so be it.
>>>>
>>>> It serves no purpose to castigate those that will choose to attend SHA.
>>>> Those that do not intend to come to the conference: fine, we get it,
>>>> move on.
>>>>
>>>> There must be a better historical archaeology thread out there than
>>>> this.
>>>>
>>>> Tim
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Elizabeth Davoli <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> To: HISTARCH <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> Sent: Wed, May 15, 2013 2:18 pm
>>>> Subject: Re: Why YOU should come to SHA Quebec 2014
>>>>
>>>> Berating colleagues for attending conferences has yet to eliminate
>>>> conferences.
>>>>
>>>> Some archaeologists choose to belong to organizations funded by the
>>>> collection of dues, others don't. Some BA/BS degree holders choose to
>>>> enroll in a graduate program to earn a higher degree, others don't.
>>>> Some college graduate archaeologists choose a career with private
>>>> contracting firms, others choose a career in government (local, state,
>>>> or federal), and others choose to work in a completely different field.
>>>>
>>>> If one chooses not to attend a conference, is there an expectation
>>>> that others must abide by that choice and not attend?
>>>>
>>>> Liz
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, 15 May 2013 16:56:49 -0400, sent <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Again sacrificing jobs and research for the feel good of human contact
>>>>> I cant see why this justifies such sacrifice.
>>>>> As you point out the job can be done with electronic communication
>>>>>
>>>>> We owe the public the most inexpensive solution and it has been
>>>> demonstrated
>>>>> that traditional
>>>>> conferencing is the most expensive solution for doing the same
>>>>> thing-
>>>>> communicating and discussing.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you want face to face discover free good and easy skype
>>>>>
>>>>> If you want to exhange papers and even co author them use google docs
>>>>>
>>>>> for recreation and travel- well use your own money- or volunteer to do
>>>>> archeology in a nice setting
>>>>>
>>>>> Easy
>>>>>
>>>>> Conrad Bladey
>>>>> Archeologist
>>>>> Peasant
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: [log in to unmask]
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 4:50 PM
>>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>> Subject: Re: Why YOU should come to SHA Quebec 2014
>>>>>
>>>>> I really have to weigh in here. I know what it was like to attend
>>>>> virtually no conferences early in my career and what it is like to do
>>>> at
>>>>> least two
>>>>> per year now (ACRA and SHA, sometimes SAA). Both my business and my
>>>>> company's work has improved dramatically, with a lot of that due to
>>>> face to
>>>>> face
>>>>> interaction with people in the field. I have picked up many
>>>>> innovative
>>>>> ideas, made many changes in the way that I do work and just became
>>>>> more
>>>>> enthused with archaeology on a regular basis by attending and
>>>> participating
>>>>> (an
>>>>> important component - giving papers, participating in symposia, doing
>>>>> posters, serving the organizations on committees and as officers,
>>>> etc. - I
>>>>> was
>>>>> chair of the 1999 SHA Conference in Salt Lake City).
>>>>>
>>>>> While I have not expected to generate new work from these attendances,
>>>> it
>>>>> has happened over the years. I also have, no doubt, that there have
>>>> been
>>>>> projects we have done that have been the result of farther flung
>>>>> connections made at conferences that I have no idea came from there.
>>>>>
>>>>> Electronic communication is wonderful and a great way to share
>>>>> specific
>>>>> information and keep in touch, but humans are humans. There is no
>>>>> substitute for person to person interaction, body language,
>>>>> interacting
>>>>> with
>>>> multiple
>>>>> people at once, experiencing the book room, personally interacting
>>>>> with
>>>>> people who create posters, the venue and city in which the conference
>>>> is
>>>>> held. Getting to know archaeologists, historians, architectural
>>>> historians
>>>>> and
>>>>> others over the years has enhanced my understanding of and joy in the
>>>>> profession, made my work better, and generated friendships for my wife
>>>>> (also an
>>>>> archaeologist) and myself that I would not trade for all of the
>>>> electronic
>>>>> communications available, hands down.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mike Polk
>>>>> Sagebrush Consultants, L.L.C.
>>>>> Ogden, Utah
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> In a message dated 5/15/2013 2:05:07 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
>>>>> [log in to unmask] writes:
>>>>>
>>>>> Exactly it is black and white that is why it is so important. We have
>>>> more
>>>>> ways to promote interaction other than conferencing than ever in
>>>>> history-why are we using this expensive method which takes jobs and
>>>>> detracts from our ability to
>>>> address
>>>>> the research?
>>>>>
>>>>> Communication is communication- all the things you mention can be
>>>>> generated by electronic communication-its easy-
>>>>>
>>>>> It is like people are insisting that we put our postal mail back on
>>>> horses
>>>>> and stage coaches because it feels better- terrible foundation for
>>>>> the
>>>>> argument for communication!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Conrad Bladey
>>>>> Archeologist
>>>>> Peasant
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Kimberly Wooten
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 2:36 PM
>>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>> Subject: Re: Why YOU should come to SHA Quebec 2014
>>>>>
>>>>> That's your black and white argument. I think the flip side being
>>>>> that
>>>>> attendance at conferences generates new ideas, enthusiasm, and
>>>>> professional contacts, all of which lead to funding and preservation
>>>> opportunities, and
>>>>> if I enjoy myself, regardless of the personal finical decisions I
>>>> make to
>>>>> attend a conference (locally or internationally), so much the better.
>>>> VTCs
>>>>> are another option, happen frequently where I work, and are often
>>>> employed
>>>>> in conjunction with professional meetings. The point of my message
>>>> was to
>>>>> be
>>>>> supportive of a peer charged with the task of promoting an important
>>>>> conference. Kimberly
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 14:10:36 -0400
>>>>>> From: [log in to unmask]
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Why YOU should come to SHA Quebec 2014
>>>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So the fun and travel is worth limiting funding, employment and
>>>>> necessary
>>>>>> conservation and fieldwork?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Look into the many ways you can do really clear visual and audio
>>>>>> conferencing-free
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Conrad
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you in advance for your prompt response!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On May 15, 2013, at 1:48 PM, Kimberly Wooten
>>>> <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Let me try this again... As archaeologists, it is almost a given
>>>> that
>>>>>>> most of us are not living the high life. I admit it can be a
>>>> financial
>>>>>
>>>>>>> strain on my family to attend a conference, but we choose to do
>>>> this;
>>>>> we
>>>>>>> can't always attend annually and are careful with those meetings
>>>> we do
>>>>>>> attend. The SHA meetings in York, England, several years ago were
>>>>>>> wonderful and nothing can compare to meeting people face-to-face,
>>>>> having
>>>>>>> my enthusiasm for my chosen field renewed by this contact and some
>>>>>>> excellent presentations, all wrapped in the bonus visiting
>>>> beautiful
>>>>>>> places. Technology has its important uses, but its limits as
>>>> well. I
>>>>> for
>>>>>>> one, will be happy to attend the meetings in Quebec City. Kimberly
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 01:17:50 +0000
>>>>>>>> From: [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>>> Subject: Why YOU should come to SHA Quebec 2014
>>>>>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> See the Society for Historical Archaeology¹s latest blog, ³Why
>>>> YOU
>>>>>>>> should come to Quebec in 2014²
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.sha.org/blog/index.php/2013/05/why-you-should-come-to-quebec
>>>>> -
>>>> in-2014/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> William Moss
>>>>>>>> Conference Chair / 47th Conference on Historic and Underwater
>>>>>>>> Archaeology Président du Comité organisateur / 47e Colloque sur
>>>>>>>> l'archéologie historique et subaquatique
>>>>>>>> www.sha2014.com<http://www.sha2014.com/>
>>>>>>>
|
