Thank you, all!
Here's what began all this and my findings (below). There was more in the
Schulz et al but they were describing manufacturers I didn't have in my
assemblage. "Steve" is a bottle expert.
June 16, 2016
Hi Juliette,
NICE article you found!
But Steve said that carbonation was not what these bottles contained.
Mineral water ain’t necessairily carbonated...
Nor is rum, gin, nor wine. Ale & beer would be.
Anyway, I based my info on these, which I had already typed into my
database. (I realize they are old citations):
“Rhine Wine” Bottles
Indication of notes (below) are indicated with yellow highlight and are not
included here.
--------------
Wilson, Bill and Betty Wilson
1968 Spirits Bottles of the Old West. Hentington Publishing Co., Wolfe
City, Texas.
Verbatim from:
Page 167, figure 6:
(6) Rum, crockery bottle, ca. 1880, brown glaze, scarce – 8*; without name,
C – 31/2* without handle – 2*.
[Page above shows a bottle like in the Rodriguez assemblage full length, the
base, and the mark on HERZOGTHUM NASSAU under rampant lion encircled by
SELTERS enclosing rampant lion as described in Switzer pages 116 & 117
below.]
--------------
Verbatim from:
Switzer, Ronald R.
1974 The Bertrand Bottles: A Study of 19th-Century Glass and Ceramic
Containers. National Park Service, U.S. Department of the Interior,
Washington D.C.
Page 13:
Twelve bottles of “Amsterdam Ale” were recovered from the hull of the
Bertrand. These distinctive bottles are tall, wheel-turned, brown to
reddish-brown unglazed stoneware (fig. 11). The base is flat with a
slightly rounded edge. Near the base of the body is a half-inch-wide ridge.
The cylindrical body is topped with rather smoothly curved shoulders and the
short neck forms a concave ridge at its juncture with the shoulder. The
remainder of the neck is cylindrical. The bottles are stoppered with corks
covered by embossed thick foil caps which extend onto the necks. The relief
stamped cap is circular with tiny dots forming its border…
Page 15:
…Dimensions: height, 10 ½ inches; diameter of base, 3 ½ inches; diameter of
neck (outside), 1 1/16 inches, (inside), sealed.
--------------
Verbatim from:
Schulz, Peter D., Betty J. Rivers, Mark M. Hales, Charles A. Litzinger, and
Elizabeth A. McKee
1980 The Bottles of Old Sacramento: A Study of Ninteenth-Century Glass
and Ceramic Retail Containers Part I. State of California, Department of
Parks and Recreation, Sacramento.
Page 15:
Undoubtedly the most distinctive of the liquor containers in the present
collection are the large ceramic jugs. These stoneware vessels stand about
eleven and one-half in high and held about a liter of liquid. All have a
small handle at the base of the neck; they were closed with corks covered by
foil caps. If the Sacramento collection is any indication, most of the jugs
imported to the United States held German mineral water (the manufacture and
distribution of these containers is discussed more fully in the mineral
waters section), but at least two brands of Holland gin (schnapps) are also
represented.
Page 115:
The ceramic mineral water containers in the collection are quite consistent
in shape and manufacturing technique and somewhat less so in size. They are
straight-sides, circular stoneware jugs which measure 10-1/2 to 12 in high,
with a diameter of slightly less than 3-1/2 in, and which held 28 to 40 oz
of water. They war wheel-thrown, jigger-made vessels, and the bases usually
exhibit a series of concentric looped ridges left by the wire used to cut
the clay base off the wheel. The exterior surface is salt-glazed. The
necks are quite short and bear a series of encircling embossed ridges
intended to help secure the wire for the cork. Each jug has a single
applied handle which loops from just below the base of the neck to the base
of the shoulder.
These jugs, which sometimes held gin and various liqueurs, were being used
for German mineral waters by 1827. They were manufactured in the Nassau
District in western Germany at Hohr, Grenzhausen, and other towns. During
the seventeenth century the potteries of this region had produced
high-quality stoneware, but during the nineteenth shifted to mineral water
jugs, beer mugs, water pitchers, and sewer pipes; by 1870, the district was
producing more than 40,000,000 lb of these items annually. These wares were
manufactured until the second decade of the present century (1900s) but the
interruption of the export of mineral waters by World War I and the
transference of the work force into more militarily important activities led
to the effectual end of the industry. Since the war, German mineral waters
have generally been bottled in glass.8
Page 116:
Herzogthum Nassau
Two jugs bear the label “HERZOGTHUM NASSAU” beneath a circle containing a
rampant lion surrounded by the word “SELTERS.” We have no information on
these containers.
Page 117:
Selters, Nassau
The common containers are impressed “SELTERS/NASSAU” in a circle around a
German eagle which bears on its chest a shield with the initials “F.R.”
(Fig. 29c). We have 55 of these jugs.
From another spring in the Nassau district, this water too was exported
early to England, According to an account of 1891, the water which is
imported at London is brought over in stone bottles, closely corked and
cemented containing three English pints each, which means the water, as long
as the common air is excluded, will retain many of its excellent qualities
for several months; but this caution is so necessary, that if too large an
empty space is left even in the neck of the bottle, it soon loses in a great
degree the brisk, smart, pungent taste, which principally characterized its
excellence, and is more liable to be injured by keeping then any other
mineral water.
The water abounds with an alkaline salt in a much greater quantity than any
other known mineral waters.13
Selters water was being exported to America by 1846. American trade
catalogs were often quite casual about distinguishing the different Selters
waters, but this one seems to have retailed for 15c[ents] to 25[cents] per
jug in the last century and, like other German and Austrian mineral waters,
undoubtedly disappeared form the American market during World War I.14
-----Original Message-----
From: Cross, Matthew
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2016 12:24 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: great local debate
The Selters water is a naturally sparkling, sodium bicarbonate mineral
water, but I cannot say whether or not the bottle closures allowed for the
retention of the bubbles. If had to wager a guess, I would say the final
product for the consumer would be still mineral water. There is nothing to
suggest an air tight closure was employed. The branding on the bottles
appears to be explicitly for the water. However, there also appears to be
a strong secondary/aftermarket use of the bottles for alcohol exporting,
specifically gin.
-Matt
______________________________________________
Matthew E. Cross
Archaeological Assistant — Historic Section
Illinois State Archaeological Survey
Prairie Research Institute
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
209 Nuclear Physics Lab, MC-571
23 East Stadium Drive
Champaign, IL 61820
217.300.3060
[log in to unmask]
On 6/17/16, 11:51 AM, "HISTORICAL ARCHAEOLOGY on behalf of Susan Walter"
<[log in to unmask] on behalf of [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>So you are saying all of these bottles were originally made to be used
>for
>mineral water?
>Are you saying they held CARBONATED or NON carbonated waters ORIGINALLY?
>It’s the carbonation thing we're debating out here.
>
>My personal experience with all these fluids is weak.
>Carbonation makes me sick, and I don't nor ever have drunk alcoholic
>beverages. Even the thimble full of communion wine used to make me throw
>up.
>
>But I want to reiterate:
>So you are saying all of these bottles were originally made to be used
>for
>mineral water?
>Are you saying they held CARBONATED or NON carbonated waters ORIGINALLY?
>It’s the carbonation thing we're debating out here.
>
>Thanks,
>S. Walter
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Cross, Matthew
>Sent: Friday, June 17, 2016 6:46 AM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: great local debate
>
>While the bottles were originally filled with mineral water, they were
>often reused for booze. A polish shipwreck contained a number of these
>bottles intact and still corked. What did they contain? Gin.
>http://www.livescience.com/47382-shipwreck-alcohol-bottle-discovered.html
>
>
>-Matt
>______________________________________________
>
>Matthew E. Cross
>Archaeological Assistant ‹ Historic Section
>
>Illinois State Archaeological Survey
>Prairie Research Institute
>University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
>209 Nuclear Physics Lab, MC-571
>23 East Stadium Drive
>Champaign, IL 61820
>
>217.300.3060
>[log in to unmask]
>
>
>
>
>
>On 6/16/16, 4:14 PM, "HISTORICAL ARCHAEOLOGY on behalf of Susan Walter"
><[log in to unmask] on behalf of [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>>June 16, 2016
>>Hi All,
>>Regarding those tall, cylindrical stoneware bottles, specifically those
>>marked ³SELTERS² did they contain carbonated fluids? I¹ve heard they did
>>NOT from one person, but others say yes they did. My various sources say
>>the contents included mineral water, wine, rum, gin, ale, and seltzer.
>>Many thanks as always,
>>S. Walter
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