I think it was George Miller who made a comment not long ago on this list about archaeologists needing to read economic history. Adrian has just brilliantly illustrated that point.

Manufacturers go to where labor is cheap. That's basic Econ 101. BUT, when the quality goes down, that's when the regulatory agencies SHOULD come into focus. That they don't is something that the ASTMS folks should be climbing all over. But can one get them to do anything? Probably not for fear of offending anyone.

Yes, the retailers buy cheap junk that is mostly made in China. That's a fact. I have also bought mattocks at various time with Polish and Indian "steel" that were soft iron and literally bent in soft coastal South Carolina sand with the first good swipe. I took them back and was accused by the store manager of "abusing" them. I got my money back. The point is that retailers will buy the cheapest stuff and unless somebody keeps an eye on them, quality can and does slip. I have seen 1/2" rat screen that's been out in the weather since 1972 that had it been 1/4" mesh, I would have been able to use it. That's how good the old stuff was and a reflection of how far standards have slipped.

Besides which, 1/4" mesh screen isn't typically put to the use or wear that archaeologists normally inflict. Formerly, wire mesh was woven and the galvanization was thick. Some bright spark figured out that it was cheaper to overlay the strands and electro-galvanize the stuff, thus gaining an advantage over the competition. They were able to sell it for the same or less because it cost less to produce than the woven and galvanized stuff. Econ 101 again. And it has degraded in quality noticeably over the last 5 years due to the decrease in galvanizing material applied to it on top of the electro-galvanizing methods used.

I've talked with retailers and to distributors about the issue and get a lot of nothing. They usually say that the number of complaints is invariably 1 as in me, nobody polices the issue and we have no clout as archaeologists because our numbers are so low. We are using an outdated technology in essence. I had begun the process of attempting to find either woven wire or some variant of punched metal with 1/4" mesh but very luckily discovered a gigantic roll of the old stuff that is now being put to use. And no, I am definitely not willing to sell any;))

As an aside, China does make IPhones and other apex techno-electronics and that has as much to do with their interest in acquiring the technology and the manufacturing capability as it does with selling it, but that's another story. Korea also makes top quality electronic products as well or so the legions who use other than IPhones allude;)

The problem is that there is hardly anywhere else to turn. The technology that produces the junk is dominating the low end of the manufacturing spectrum. Once I run out of the old stuff, I'm going to be in a pickle. Real screens cost really big bucks, even if they're still made which is doubtful and are a significant part of the materials budget for any project. I can make the frames and cut the wire and put them together to save a bit, but in the end, if the screen is prohibitively expensive, one still has to buy it because we still have to screen.

Further, Tim was being very specific about one particular item and where it was manufactured. It has the merit of being true. So your broad-brushing his comment into denigration of all things Chinese is more than a little absurd and off the mark by several parsecs. That label was formerly applied to Japanese electronics, then Korean and so forth and I do believe that once the technology improved, both Japan and Korea are recognized as producing some top-tier goods in not only electronics but several other manufacturing arenas.

Low-end market stuff isn't going to disappear as long as there's a market for it and as long as it works past the warranty period, tough cookies for redress for poor quality. Econ 101, Marketing 101, Politics 101. To effect a change, see what the ASTMS standards are and rattle enough cages to make them apply those standards. But until that happens, you spend $1000 on a fridge, it breaks down one day after the warranty expires and you've not elected to go with the rip-off extended warranty, so you spend $220 on the CHEAPEST service call. Gone are the days when warranties were measured in 5 years much less lifetime.

George Miller was right, so what's unusual about that?

Lyle Browning, RPA

On Mar 23, 2013, at 12:14 PM, Adrian Myers wrote:

> Hey Tim,
> 
> My iPhone is made in China and it is the apex of technological
> advancement and quality.
> 
> My point being that the fact that the mesh you describe is of low quality
> has nothing to do with it having been made in China, it has to do with the
> American retailers you mention ordering a specific kind of mesh (metal
> type, weave/non-weave, durability, expected uses, etc.) for a specific
> price. Equating "Made in China" with "poor quality" is both bogus, and to
> be honest, might be seen as slightly racist. Of course China makes lots of
> cheap crap, but they also make highly advanced and durable things. And in
> any case, the only reason THEY make it is because WE want it.
> 
> I don't at all mean to be argumentative or accusatory towards you Tim
> specifically, I just wanted to point out that I think it's a generalizing
> stereotype that may have had some truth to it in the past, but not longer
> does.
> 
> And in my defence for going on this tangent (pre-emptive), I think this is
> a very archaeological discussion, in more ways that one! I would be
> interested in other people's opinion on this.
> 
> Good luck finding the mesh you are looking for!
> 
> Adrian
> __________________________________________________________________
> Adrian Myers, Doctoral Candidate   |   Department of Anthropology, Stanford
> University
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 8:43 AM, Tim Bennett <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> 
>> Hi everyone,
>> 
>> Does anybody have a good source for 1/4 in hardware mesh?  I did a quick
>> search on the Listserv archives and there are a couple of mentions of it,
>> but that was quite a few years ago, at least what was returned on the
>> search parameters.  The 1/4 in mesh/hardware cloth that is sold at big box
>> stores such as Home Depot, Lowes, Menards, etc is not suitable for
>> archaeological work, at least what is sold in my area of MI.  The product
>> they offer is made in China and is not woven and is very thinly galvanized.
>> This screen is rendered useless after about 2 days of use.  I did quite a
>> bit of searching on the internet a couple of years ago but it seems that
>> the only 1/4 mesh out there is the China made non woven stuff or high grade
>> stainless steel, brass, etc that is mostly for commercial/industrial
>> purposes.  I have a chapter member that is in need of building some screens
>> so if anyone has any sources of archaeological quality screen, it would be
>> most appreciated.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Tim
>>