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I'm taking this off the listserv so as not to bore others with this  on-going conversation, but...

On Feb 11, 2011, at 1:57 PM, Martin Weiss wrote:
> The question of God is not the issue. Science has nothing to say about God's
> existence, does it? nor do I think it is a question of confrontation or
> agreement

I agree with you on this point - and I told the student that we aren't looking to prove or disprove god at all.


>  Isn't the point of biology how do we explain the life history and
> inter-relationships of all the organisms on, or who have ever been on,
> Earth?  Evolution is a testable theory and you can, as a teacher,  offer to
> discuss any other testable theories.

So can you point to a macroscopic test that has been done that could convince someone?  I can point to some work with foxes, the work with fruit flies and the very small, but not a cross-species within our life-time conductible test of evolution.  

With that being said, for a 2nd grader the conversation is very different than for an adult.  So if a 2nd grader is told evolution is a nasty word then, then the 2nd grader avoids the word, not the concept.  An adult more likely rejects the concept as well - but depending on their background they may just reject evolution across species line, or they may reject more.

> I really think that questions of God's,
> existence or non existence, which I love to discuss, belongs in a religion
> or philosophy class.

Agreed.  I actually don't have a problem with ID (intelligent design) - as long as it is taught within a philosophy class - as it is an untestable philosophical construct.  
But not everyone agrees with me.  Look at texts from Dawkins and from the creationists - they both disagree with the idea that science and religion occupy different realms.  And certainly if God is tinkering with everything, then the scientist says he tinkers in very predictable ways (but somewhat random with quantum mechanics).  The difference in approaches to education goes from EO Wilson's approach to Richard Dawkins' approach.  Richard Dawkins approach is prone to start at areas of opposition.  Eo Wilson's approach doesn't start at such points of opposition. On an individual basis a point of non-opposition is the place where you can get people to listen.  On a global basis, occasionally opposition may be called for.

> We just developed, a bout a year ago, an exhibition about evolution for
> younger visitors. The question of a title came up and there were two views
> one with the word evolution and the other without. I and others felt that
> evolution had to be in the title not only to draw a line in the sand but use
> a very good descriptive word that would describe to visitors what the
> exhibition was about. They could make the choice to enter or to avoid it but
> no one would be fooled by an exhibition that said something like Change Over
> Time and find out it was about evolution. If children are to learn science
> they have to learn science.m Sorry I am hard about this.

I know of the exhibit.  I would argue that putting the word evolution in the title does pre-arm people and make them know what they were getting into.  This also may make the exhibit less likely to come down to rural sections of the Bible Belt as a science museum might be putting it's very existence in danger by trumpeting evolution.  So for each center they make a choice - is it better to push this particular piece, or to try to increase science literacy.  I would not judge them.

My position has been, that if asked I will always say that Evolution is the theory that underlies biology, and it is very well accepted, but no idea - not the theory of gravity, not evolution, not newton's laws, etc. is sacrosanct.  If further evidence shows something to be incorrect, then we will adjust it - that is science's strength.  I don't apologize for evolution or the big bang, but at the same time, I do not try to demand that our audience all accept these ideas before talking with them about science.  Why?  I want to help them understand science so they can make more informed choices for themselves. 
 
-William

William Katzman
Program Leader
LIGO Science Education Center
"Inspiring Science"
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(225) 686-3134





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