Hi Peter, well I must say I really did like your three posts here. That was a lot of work but it is a very nice presentation. Thank you for sharing. I note your comment about having reservations about wing shape analysis, I found a couple of quite interesting articles which can be found at these links. The links all go on one line without any breaks. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CCwQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ibra.org.uk%2Farticles%2FPhylogenetic-relationships-among-Apis-mellifera-subspecies&rct=j&q=apis%20mellifera%20subspecies%20identification&ei=q7p1TdqtOILSuwOk9aTbBQ&usg=AFQjCNEBFI7vqH4ORntD_duinjEUAMG5dw&sig2=3bQ-eRjSDPsBYa7dhyzbpA&cad=rja http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CDIQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.culturaapicola.com.ar%2Fapuntes%2Frevistaselectronicas%2Fapidologie%2F37-1%2FM6009.pdf&rct=j&q=apis%20mellifera%20subspecies%20identification&ei=q7p1TdqtOILSuwOk9aTbBQ&usg=AFQjCNEmaJuHmJ8ljaFC5WbpBRL1xwFaJQ&sig2=rxeSQ4S3giIRcE1Hvh-1Ww&cad=rja If there is any difficulty the following google search will pull up the same articles http://www.google.com/search?hl=&q=apis+mellifera+subspecies+forewing+venation&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B7GGLL_enTH408TH408&ie=UTF-8 The DrawWing software mentioned in one of the articles may be found at the following link but sadly it is only for Windows users. (yes, not withstanding your reservations) http://www.drawwing.org/ However... what I was really wondering is whether there is any way that a bee keeper can identify the subspecies he has? I know it is not the end of the earth to know but it might be an interesting exercise to find out. *********************************************** The BEE-L mailing list is powered by L-Soft's renowned LISTSERV(R) list management software. For more information, go to: http://www.lsoft.com/LISTSERV-powered.html Guidelines for posting to BEE-L can be found at: http://honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm