ISEN-ASTC-L is a service of the Association of Science-Technology Centers
Incorporated, a worldwide network of science museums and related institutions.
*****************************************************************************

Yes, Matthew, I think you are absolutely correct in saying the real  
question is what are libraries so valued by communities relative to  
museums that not only do people willingly subsidize libraries through  
taxes, but, at least in NY, Libraries always end up on the top of the  
list of valued community assets.  Someone's got to pay, but there is  
a real difference between the fee for service model (as in museums)  
and the tax levy model (as in libraries).

I think that you are also correct in saying the museums as they are  
currently constructed are generally considerably more expensive to  
run than branch libraries, perhaps we are more comparable to research  
libraries.  Certainly we are more expensive per visitor and probably  
per square foot, though I really do not know that for sure.


Eric Siegel
New York Hall of Science
[log in to unmask]
(718) 699-0005 x 317



On Mar 23, 2006, at 8:41 AM, Matthew White wrote:

> ISEN-ASTC-L is a service of the Association of Science-Technology  
> Centers
> Incorporated, a worldwide network of science museums and related  
> institutions.
> ********************************************************************** 
> *******
>
> Eric
> See another post to address the Podcast issue.
>
>
> As for the library v. museum vis a viz being free, I have always  
> felt this was a bit of a red herring. (Full disclosure: I have not  
> read the referenced article and may be repeating what it said. If  
> so I apologize)  I have worked at museums that do not charge  
> admission and ones that do. trust me. The public ALWAYS pays. It  
> might be an obvious entry fee or hidden in local, state, or federal  
> taxes, but the public pays for it somehow. Libraries, too. The  
> issue isn't whether or not an educational institution like a  
> library or museum is free or not, it is HOW it collects the money  
> from their users to stay open. Historically, libraries have been  
> more successful in convincing local populations and their  
> governments to support them collectively through taxes than museums  
> have.  I think this probably has to do with the still widespread  
> perception of libraries as more populist institutions than museums  
> coupled with the tendency of museum's to have more and larger  
> burdens on their budgets that the public either doesn't see or is  
> not obvious like artifact preservation, collections management,  
> exhibition construction and maintenance etc.
>
> I know there are a host of nuances here and that there are  
> institutions, libraries and museums, that have large enough  
> endowments to both not charge admission and not use public money as  
> a part of the general operating budget, but these are very rare.
>
> I also admit that the question of how Libraries have been able to  
> convince localities to fund them collectively rather than  
> individually was precisely the question that Eric and possibly  
> Elaine was trying to get at. But having worked in museums that  
> charged admission within an hour of Smithsonian museums that don't,  
> I have taken a lot of guff from visitors who complain and wonder  
> why we can't be free like them. The disconnect in people's minds  
> between taxes and services is a pet peeve, and it is there this  
> discussion should start.
>
> Have a great day,
>
> Matthew White
> Director, Hands On Science Center
> Smithsonian Institution
> [log in to unmask]
>
> On Mar 23, 2006, at 6:05 AM, Eric Siegel wrote:
>
>> ISEN-ASTC-L is a service of the Association of Science-Technology  
>> Centers
>> Incorporated, a worldwide network of science museums and related  
>> institutions.
>> ********************************************************************* 
>> ********
>>
>> Podcasts are intrinsically non-social receptive media, meant  
>> for....ipods, think earbuds.  There is nothing to prevent a museum  
>> from doing podcasts of current science, which might be useful for  
>> some and would forward the mission of the science center, but it  
>> will not be used on the exhibition floor or at the museum.   That  
>> said, I think we should accommodate all the ways in which people  
>> learn, including reading, listening, and watching. Not everything  
>> we do has to be interactive and inquiry based.  I am kind of  
>> fascinated by how popular and important libraries are in America,  
>> they are seen as a (maybe *the only* ) critical part of the free  
>> choice learning  infrastructure of the US.  I have been thinking  
>> what and how we can learn from them?  Elaine Gurian made the point  
>> in a recent article in Museum News, I think it was, that museums  
>> should be free to the public.  How have libraries managed to do  
>> that and still thrive?
>>
>> I have found a charming podcast about a "cityslicker's" climb to  
>> base camp three on everest www.everestpodcast.com
>>
>> Eric Siegel
>> Executive VP
>>    Programs and Planning
>> NY Hall of Science
>> 47-01 111th Street
>> Queens, NY 11368
>> [log in to unmask]
>> 718 699 0005 x 317
>> www.nyscience.org
>>
>>
>> On Mar 22, 2006, at 11:43 PM, Sue Ann Heatherly wrote:
>>
>>> ISEN-ASTC-L is a service of the Association of Science-Technology  
>>> Centers
>>> Incorporated, a worldwide network of science museums and related  
>>> institutions.
>>> ******************************************************************** 
>>> *********
>>>
>>> But I think the question was how do we incorporate an essentially  
>>> lecture
>>> oriented, but hip medium into science center world.  which is a  
>>> great
>>> question, but nothing is hitting me... how do we make pod casts
>>> interactive?  folks certainly don't need us to access these,  
>>> unless we
>>> weave them into a greater experience.
>>>
>>> Sue Ann
>>> NRAO-Green Bank
>>>
>>>
>>>> ISEN-ASTC-L is a service of the Association of Science- 
>>>> Technology Centers
>>>> Incorporated, a worldwide network of science museums and related
>>>> institutions.
>>>> ******************************************************************* 
>>>> **********
>>>>
>>>> Martin: They may be great for teacher professional development.  
>>>> We are
>>>> contemplating pod casts for that purpose. What do you think? Peter
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Peter B. Dow
>>>> First Hand Learning, Inc.
>>>> 2495 Main Street
>>>> Buffalo, NY 14214
>>>> (716) 831-9160
>>>> www.firsthandlearning.org
>>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>>
>>>> ******************************************************************* 
>>>> ****
>>>> More information about the Informal Science Education Network  
>>>> and the
>>>> Association of Science-Technology Centers may be found at
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>>>
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>>> More information about the Informal Science Education Network and  
>>> the
>>> Association of Science-Technology Centers may be found at http:// 
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> More information about the Informal Science Education Network and the
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