Wow! great stuff here, Bill. I had no idea that the SCA glass could show up
in manufacturing as late as 1933, but it explains my Hinds bottle with the
screw threads. Here I thought I was imagining the slight purple tint.
The Owens mark is an inaccurate description by me. It's actually an Owens
scar from the manufacturing technique, not the mark.
I'm ready to go with George Miller's date of post-1928 for my particular
bottle, especially now that you confirm the SCA glass conforms to that date.
Thank you ALL for your input here. The site was found on a ranch near Santa
Fe that was not developed until the mid-1970's. The feature appears to be a
cowboy camp. The owner is delighted to imagine a cowboy shaving and soothing
his chapped hands and face with the honey and almond crème. As the bottle is
out of context (it was found during a construction project), he is going to
donate it to the the A.S. Friends of Hinds Museum. Apparently they believe
it is the western-most intact example they know of.
THANKS, ALL!
Cathy
Catherine Holder Spude, PhD
7 Avenida Vista Grande #145
Santa Fe, NM 87508
505-466-1476 home
505-913-1326 cell
"Life is not tried, it is merely survived if you are standing outside the
fire," Jenny Yates and Garth Brooks.
-----Original Message-----
From: Lockhart, Bill
Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 3:49 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: HINDS bottle
Sorry for the late hit here, but I am on sabbatical and not in to the
office often.
Forget all the outdated sources for purple glass. My article in SHA
journal discredits the older dating. SCA can be as late as 1933,
although a more typical phasing out date is ca. 1920. That 1914 stuff
came from Grace Kendrick -- in 1964!! We have learned a bit since
then.
The earliest patent we have found for screw caps on narrow-mouth
bottles is 1925. Although an earlier use is POSSIBLE, it is unlikely.
Screw caps (therefore, continuous-thread finishes) generally become more
common ca. 1927 or 1928. I suspect that Bill Lindsey has that somewhere
on the Historical Bottle Webpage by now.
Finally, the Owens Bottle Co. trademark document claims the first use
of the Box-O mark as 1919 -- the first year that the firm went by that
name (it was the Owens Bottle Machine Co. prior to that). In really
rigorous searching, the Bottle Research Group has found NO evidence for
the use of the Box-O mark prior to 1919. Toulouse was incorrect.
Owens used small letters in the center of the base to mark SOME of its
bottles prior to 1919 -- probably beginning ca. 1910. For example, F =
Fairmont, WV plant. These are especially prevalent on catsup and liquid
food bottles.
Hope this helps some.
Bill
Btw, I toured the Owens-Illinois plant at Crenshaw, PA, this summer. I
literally watched bottles being made by a machine only 18" from my
eyes!! The hot end of the plant was unbelievably hot. Even in the
Saudi Arabian desert, I have NEVER experienced heat like that!!! The
cold end was much nicer -- generally between 90 and 100 degrees.
Bill Lockhart
Professor of Sociology
New Mexico State University
Alamogordo, NM
(575) 439-3732
>>> Cathy Spude <[log in to unmask]> 11/12/2011 10:08 AM >>>
George:
Thanks for clarifying. You're a big help.
It is a suction scar, not a manufacturing mark by the Owens company, so
I'm
dating the bottle after 1905. Yes, I, too am confused by the threaded
finish, which you post-date to 1920, but the very slight purple color,
which
I pre-date to 1915. That does indeed have me in a quandary. I can't
explain
it. As you note, the U.S.A date also is later. I am ready to ignore the
slight purple color and go with all later indicators. The coloring is
VERY
slight, and may not be solarized at all.
Cathy
Catherine Holder Spude, PhD
7 Avenida Vista Grande #145
Santa Fe, NM 87508
505-466-1476 home
505-913-1326 cell
"Life is not tried, it is merely survived if you are standing outside
the
fire," Jenny Yates and Garth Brooks.
-----Original Message-----
From: George Miller
Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 1:37 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: HINDS bottle
Cathy,
I have a question about your “Owens mark on the base.” Are you
refereeing
to a maker’s mark from the Owens Bottle Company, or an Owens suction
scar
on the base of the bottle? The Owens box-O mark for the Owens Bottle
Company, according to Toulouse does not begin until 1911 (pp 393 in
Toulouse’s *Bottle Makers and their Marks*). The Owens Bottle Machine
Company did not begin leasing out their bottle-blowing machine in a big
way
until 1905. Many of the early bottles made on that machine were cork
stopped rather than screw threads or continuous thread finishes. Your
bottle also has “MADE IN U.S.A.” that tends to be later. Are you sure
the
glass is solarized?
Peace,
George L. Miller
On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 11:50 AM, Cathy Spude <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:
> Thanks, George.
>
> The notation "SCA" by archaeologists here in the West means
sun-colored
> amethyst: it was clarified by manganese. Yes, amateurish, I know, but
it's
> short-hand out of the several Western states' historic sites manuals,
I'm
> afraid. To my reasoning, my particular bottle pre-dates 1915. The
Owens
> mark on the bottle post-dates it to 1904. I was hoping some
information
> from the listserve would help me narrow it down.
>
> Cathy
>
>
>
>
> Catherine Holder Spude, PhD
> 7 Avenida Vista Grande #145
> Santa Fe, NM 87508
> 505-466-1476 home
> 505-913-1326 cell
>
> "Life is not tried, it is merely survived if you are standing outside
the
> fire," Jenny Yates and Garth Brooks.
> -----Original Message----- From: George Miller
> Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 5:29 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: HINDS bottle
>
>
> Cathy,
>
> I have a Whitall Tatum Co. drawing of the bottle. The front panel
reads:
> HINES / HONEY / AND / ALMOND / CREAM / A.S. HINDS CO. / BLOOMFIELD /
N.J.
> U.S.A. The base reads A.S.HINDS CO. along with the triangle WT mark.
It
> has a continuous thread finish. A note on the drawing reads
"Dimensions
> show proposed changes - other dimensions same as W.T. dwg. no.
G3831-E"
> The base of the drawing reads LEHN & FINK, IND, NEW YORK / 4 1/2 OZ.
FANCY
> OBLONG/ PROPOSED CHANGES. Date Jan. 23 - 1928. WHITALL TATUM CO. /
> MILLVILLE, N.J. DRAWING No. SK. 208
>
> Question, what color are your referring to as "SCA"? Not everyone
will be
> familiar with your coding.
>
> Peace,
> George L. Miller
>
> On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 9:35 AM, Cathy Spude <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:
>
> Does anyone know anything about a bottle marked:
>>
>> HINDS
>> HONEY
>> AND
>> ALMOND
>> CREAM
>> A.S. HINDS CO.
>> BLOOMFIELD N.J. U.S.A.
>>
>>
>> It’s an apothecary, with a screw finish, a light SCA glass type, and
>> Owens
>> mark on the base. The base repeats the mark:
>>
>> A. S. HINDS CO.
>> 10 V MADE IN U.S.A.
>>
>> Catherine Holder Spude, PhD
>> 7 Avenida Vista Grande #145
>> Santa Fe, NM 87508
>> 505-466-1476 home
>> 505-913-1326 cell
>>
>> "Life is not tried, it is merely survived if you are standing
outside the
>> fire," Jenny Yates and Garth Brooks.
>>
>>
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