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Tom, I am grateful for your efforts.  This is going to require a longer conversation over a beer or 3.  Going to be at ASTC?

Eric

On Jun 13, 2013, at 5:14 PM, Tom Lesser <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> ISEN-ASTC-L is a service of the Association of Science-Technology Centers
> Incorporated, a worldwide network of science museums and related institutions.
> *****************************************************************************
> 
> Eric,
> 
> “When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.” – Arthur C. Clarke
> 
> You have to put yourself in the mindset of “established” science, in this case established science in the 1890s.  At that point in time it was generally accepted that electricity, magnetism, and light were explained by the same mathematical descriptions. In the early 1860s James Clerk Maxwell calculated that the speed of propagation of an electromagnetic field is approximately that of the speed of light. If you will, experimental evidence of that “fact”.
> 
> Thus, in our simplified explanation (and skipping over much scientific history) electricity, magnetism, and light were all covered by electromagnetic theory. Part of that theory is the concept that you could not have or therefore measure a stationary local maximum for any of the three. The theory was widely accepted.  Now let me digress a bit. Aristotle (384 BC – 322 BC) laid the basis for scientific thinking for almost 2,000 years: universal truths can be known from particular things via induction -- by just think about them. Fast forward to Galileo (1564 – 1642). Galileo championed a major change in the scientific method, investigation by physical experimentation. You could not just discern scientific information/facts by thinking about them; you had to prove them in the physical world. (Everyone “knew/knows” that if a heavier ball and a lighter one are dropped from the same height at the same time, the heavier ball would hit the ground first.) Science in the 1800s was in the great age of experimentation, actually measuring to prove a fact or theory.
> 
> In my train analogy, say the train is moving at 1,000 miles per hour. Now try to think of a way to physically jump onto the train from the platform. I think we would all accept the fact that it is impossible to physically jump onto the train and therefore impossible to physically measure the seat.  End of discussion. As a 12-14 year Albert Einstein doesn’t “waste” his time thinking about how to get on the train (I assume he accepted that as impossible). In his mind, Einstein says forget about how to get on the train, I’ll just imagine I’m on the train; then what? His first major breakthrough; no physical experimentation, just a thought experiment. Then he is able to envision the physics of that experience.  He realizes that if he is riding on the light beam there would be a local maximum. If he is correct, he realizes that light did not adhere to the theory of electromagnetism.
> 
> Today we say what’s the big deal?  Well, pick some widely accepted scientific theory (what killed the dinosaurs, the age of the universe, etc.), think about it, and come up with an alternative theory.  Then try to get the scientific community to take you seriously.  Now try it as a 12 -14 year old.
> 
> Tom Lesser
> 
> 
> On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 12:04 PM, Eric Siegel wrote:
> 
>> ISEN-ASTC-L is a service of the Association of Science-Technology Centers
>> Incorporated, a worldwide network of science museums and related institutions.
>> *****************************************************************************
>> 
>> This is exactly where it loses me.  You can get the measurement if you are riding on the train, and you can get the measurement if you are riding on the beam of light.  So where's the problem?
>> 
>> eric
>> 
>> On Jun 13, 2013, at 11:49 AM, Tom Lesser <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> 
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