George,
Thank you and to all who have responded. I'm rather proud to say I had come
to this conclusion, based upon your several articles (and many others) I had
already.
I wanted confirmation and VERY MUCH appreciate HISTARCH and Anita Cohen
Williams' management of it for so much assistance I personally have
received.
BTW, 75 students aged 8-16 are accessing Histarch this summer from my office
to suppplement their curiosity about archaeology.
All of you are now - possibly - being scrutinized by these children.
S. Walter
----- Original Message -----
From: "George Miller" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2011 5:22 PM
Subject: Re: Banded / dipt / etc
Susan,
In the many invoices from potters importers and jobbers dealing
in ceramics that I have examined over the years, the term “sets” is almost
never used for the dipt wares. These wares were being ordered by the
potter’s dozen sizes. The larger the bowl, jug (potter’s term for pitcher)
or mug, the smaller the number of vessels being ordered. The potter’s dozen
was based on the capacity of hollow wares. In the original system vessels
that held one pint counted 12 to the dozen, those that held two pints
counted 6 to the dozen, while those that held a half pint counted 24 to the
dozen. The cost of a dozen of dipt and other hollow wares (CC, painted,
printed etc.) was the same per dozen, but for the smaller bowls you would
get 24 to the dozen, while the larger vessels might range from 4 to 6 to the
dozen. They are referred to by their sizes, i.e. 6’s, 12’s, 24’s etc.
Here is what a typical entry would look like from potter’s invoices from the
first half of the 19th century and later.
36 dozen dipt bowls, 8/6’s, 12/12’s, 16/24’s @ 3/- =
108 shillings or 5£ 8 shillings
That translates to 8 doz. 6’s, 12 doz. 12’s and 16 doz. 24’s
Translating the potter’s dozen equals 48 two pint bowls, 144 pint bowls, and
384 half-pint bowls. Thus the 36 dozen ordered actually adds up to 576
bowls.
From this, it is clear that they were not being ordered in sets. There is a
description of the potter’s dozen in my 1991 article:
George L. Miller
1991 A Revised Set of CC Index Values for Classification and Economic
Scaling of English Ceramics from 1787 to 1880. *Historical Archaeology* Vol
25 No. 1:1-25. See pages 6-7 and page 21.
Using 101 invoices from New York City importers and jobbers to
the country trade dating from 1806 to 1886 we have shown that dipt wares
were the dominant type of decorated bowls from the 1830s to the 1880s. See
pages 87 and 89-91 in:
George L. Miller and Amy C. Earls
2008 War and Pots: The Impact of Economics and Politics on Ceramic
Consumption Patterns. *Ceramics in America 2008* edited by Robert Hunter,
The Chipstone Foundation, Milwaukee.
Lynne Sussman wrote an important monograph titled *Mocha,
Banded, Cat’s Eye, and Other Factory-Made Slipware* that was published by
the Council for Northeast Historical Archaeology in 1997. Appendix B of
Lynne’s study has and extensive listing of terms used to describe dipt wares
in invoices and other sources dating from the 1760s into the early 20th
century.
Peace,
George L. Miller
On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 4:50 PM, Kate and Silas
<[log in to unmask]>wrote:
> You might also want to look at
>
>
>
> http :// www . cneha .org/monographs. html
>
>
> (from web page)
>
> The Council for Northeast Historical Archaeology is pleased to announce
> the
> publication of the inaugural issue of its monograph series, Studies in
> Northeast Historical Archaeology . Number 1 in the series is an in-depth
> study of factory-made slipware by one of the field's leading material
> culture specialists/ceramic historians, Lynne Sussman .
>
>
>
> Silas
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>
>
>
> From: "Susan Walter" < sdwalter @COX.NET <http://cox.net/>>
> To: HISTARCH @ ASU . EDU
> Sent: Friday, June 24, 2011 3:20:02 PM
> Subject: Re: Banded / dipt / etc
>
> I won't be photographing the bits till next week (all my cameras are
> dead);
> thanks for the offer so much though.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Terry Majewski " < tmajewski @ SRICRM .COM>
> To: < HISTARCH @ ASU . EDU >
> Sent: Friday, June 24, 2011 12:15 PM
> Subject: Re: Banded / dipt / etc
>
>
> Susan, I am at a workshop/conference with the author today through Sunday.
> If you could send me an image off line, I would be happy to ask him for
> his
> thoughts on your item.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HISTORICAL ARCHAEOLOGY [ mailto : HISTARCH @ asu . edu ] On Behalf
> Of
> Susan
> Walter
> Sent: Friday, June 24, 2011 12:12 PM
> To: HISTARCH @ ASU . EDU
> Subject: Re: Banded / dipt / etc
>
> Perfect!
> Many thanks.
> Buying it, if possible, in the next few minutes.
> Yeah I know already the issue of "sets" in this stuff; but I'm grasping at
> the proverbial straws here...
> Thanks again.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Terry Majewski " < tmajewski @ SRICRM .COM>
> To: < HISTARCH @ ASU . EDU >
> Sent: Friday, June 24, 2011 11:05 AM
> Subject: Re: Banded / dipt / etc
>
>
> Susan,
>
> Try this fine reference. Not sure your items were sold in sets in the
> sense
> that we are used to with sets of tablewares
>
> Rickard, Jonathan
> 2006 Mocha and Related Dipped Wares, 1770-1939. University Press of New
> England, Hanover, New Hampshire. (The authoritative guide to the history
> and
> craft of mocha and associated dipped wares.)
>
> Terry Majewski
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HISTORICAL ARCHAEOLOGY [ mailto : HISTARCH @ asu . edu ] On Behalf
> Of
> Susan
> Walter
> Sent: Friday, June 24, 2011 10:31 AM
> To: HISTARCH @ ASU . EDU
> Subject: Banded / dipt / etc
>
> June 24, 2011
> Hi All,
>
> I am hoping someone could point me toward some reference that can help me
> understand the SETS this ware, described below, was sold in.
>
> Smeared through a large deposit I have what appears to be one banded /
> dipt
> probable pitcher maybe tankard.
>
> At this site, this vessel exhibits a particularly odd shade of green (plus
> blue, white, brown/black), and bits crossmend with bits from areas dozens
> of
> feet away.
>
> There are 65 units.
> No piece is larger than a thumbnail.
>
> This green color appears in many of the units. But again, I only seem to
> have one item. There are only 2 rim frags, crossmending from different
> units, and maybe 1 base frag.
>
> I know the forms/shapes/vessel types this ware came in; I am hoping
> someone
> could point me toward some reference that can help me understand the SETS
> this ware was sold in.
>
> Thank you!
>
> S. Walter
>
>
>
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