I agree with Skip- interesting! This system would only make sense
for a pottery operating on a "goods-from-hand" system, instead of a
goods-from-oven system for determining payment. Have any others heard
of this ring pattern?
Cheers
Tim
On Nov 20, 2010, at 12:30 PM, Leslie C. Skip Stewart-Abernathy wrote:
> This is either an amazingly neglected topic or it is entirely
> irrelevant to human existence, but at any event I am fascinated. If
> it weren't for the account of an actual potter passed down through
> his grandson I would say the subject is irrelevant and as subject to
> "just so" and mythic explanations as the raised dots on the bottom
> of snuff bottles. However, this is now similar to looking at the
> technical knowledge known only to guild members. And it's more
> relevant to me than many of the latest developments in pyramid
> studies.
>
> The use of concentric lines/ridges to identify single potters raises
> (oops) many questions. Were the plates press molded or slip cast?
> Did each potter (or machine operator?) have their own bottom mold or
> mold half custom prepared and/or assigned? Did this code stay the
> same regardless of the overall plate form/dimensions/changes through
> time or did the code shift with new styles or production runs? Does
> this ring code indicate an entire line of work back in the mold shop
> with associated records and interchangeable tools to make the mold/
> whatever unique? And was this code unique to the "National
> Brotherhood of Operative Potters" as included on the Cronin plate I
> have (only at hand as a photo on my laptop)?
>
> My type collection is at the office and I am at home, but a quick
> check of our home dishes, not in sets for the most part I might add,
> have no rings. The revived Homer Laughlin Fiesta plates do (9" has 6
> evenly spaced, 10 1/2" has 6 but space between innermost 2 is less
> than between others). These plates are decorated with concentric
> rings on the marley and in the well. The two bowl forms we have
> show no rings but the foot ring. Are the bottom rings still a code,
> or "just" decoration?
>
> And how come nobody's noticed the rings before? Or does George
> Miller have a paper we don't know about? At minimum this gives me
> something else to look at on the bottoms of vessels at the restaurant.
>
> At 03:15 PM 11/19/2010, you wrote:
>> Susan,
>> We actually have a few teetering piles of Cronin around the house.
>> My grandfathers mark were 2 concentric lines approximately 2 inches
>> from center of plate with a third concentric line close to the
>> footring. Each potter that actually made pieces had a specific
>> mark, unique to them. It was partially used for Quality Control and
>> for the amount of pieces made by a specific potter for quota's.
>> Examples: Plates that were not holding up well, blemishes, or any
>> below standard qualities could then be traced to the specific
>> potter/maker and then be addressed. A certain amount of items
>> had to be finished by deadlines and they could count the quantity
>> of dishes from a specific line in the factory by the marks ensuring
>> each potter was 'keeping up' with production needs.
>> So, the lines have more to deal with the actual worker/potter than
>> a designer or a specific pattern. (At Cronin China)
>> I hope this helps clear things up.
>> If you have any other questions, I will be glad to answer them.
>> Douglas
>>
>>
>> --- On Fri, 11/19/10, Susan Walter <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Susan Walter <[log in to unmask]>
>> Subject: Re: lines UNDER plates
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Date: Friday, November 19, 2010, 12:34 PM
>>
>>
>> Hi D & L,
>>
>> Wow, how cool that you can find your Grandfather's work like that!
>> (I'm afraid if I had that in my family history I'd "need" to buy
>> every piece! I can imagine the teetering piles...)
>>
>> I don't have a Cronin China Co. piece in my reference collection of
>> complete wares.
>>
>> But, for instance, I have beside me a piece of Haviland's Ranson
>> pattern.
>> The designer of this pattern, Ranson, for Haviland was possibly
>> Paul Ranson. (Travis, Nora, 2000, Evolution of Haviland China
>> Design, Schiffer, Atglen Pennsylvania: 143).
>> I want you to pretend Haviland = Cronin China Co., and Paul Ranson
>> = your Grandfather
>>
>> Describing the bottom roughly:
>> starting at the very center -
>> - beginning near 3/16" from the middle are 2 concentric lines (@
>> 3/16" apart) (lightest in prominence)
>> - then a space of about 1 3/4"
>> - then another set of concentric lines (@3/16" apart) (medium
>> prominence)
>> - next the footring about 3/4" from that
>> - following at about another 3/4" is a single concentric line (this
>> line is heaviest) in prominence
>>
>> So D & L, are you suggesting that - to the [Haviland Company/
>> Cronin] - these concentric lines meant [Paul Ranson/your Grandpa]?
>> Or that they meant part of the patented Ranson shape? Or both?
>>
>> So, would other Paul Ranson designed shapes have the same series of
>> concentric lines?
>>
>> S.
>>
>> Disclaimer to everyone following this: I understand that what
>> Cronin China Co. did is not necessairily what Haviland did!
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "D & L" <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2010 9:03 AM
>> Subject: Re: lines UNDER plates
>>
>>
>> My Grandfather worked for many years at the Cronin China factory in
>> Ohio. He had told me the lines on the plates were a 'Makers Mark'
>> in a way. Each potter placed a certain amount of circles, placed in
>> a specific area on the plate bottom. This told which potter
>> actually had made the item. I can still find plates bearing my
>> Grandfathers marks at antique stores, etc. It amazes me to be able
>> to hold an item that had actually passed through his hands.
>>
>>
>> --- On Thu, 11/18/10, Susan Walter <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Susan Walter <[log in to unmask]>
>> Subject: lines UNDER plates
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Date: Thursday, November 18, 2010, 11:03 AM
>>
>>
>> Nov. 18, 2010
>>
>> Hi All (Hi Carol!),
>>
>> A friend and I were discussing ceramics, and she reminded me of
>> something.
>>
>> Often on the undersides of dishes are concentric lines that were
>> molded into the vessel. They are usually inside the footring, but
>> also occur outside of them.
>>
>> For us, they help to match up fragments of different vessels.
>>
>> But, she was asking, was there any specific original purpose to
>> these?
>>
>> S. Walter
>>
>>
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