Randy says: I find that the author did a good job in this paper,  
recognized "anomalous
data" such as Suchail's, and objectively analyzed  existing research.  As to
his conclusions, read what the author actually  says:
 
Overall, Randy is spot on here.  My comments were cautionary -  its a 
rather small data set to call a 'Meta' analysis.  And one can  eliminate 
anomalous data - but one needs a better justification than hand  waving - you can't 
just proclaim it anomalous, its critical in a paper like this  to clarify 
why any data was eliminated.
 
I also found some disturbing misquotes of papers and some  blurring of the 
definitions regarding acute/chronic/and sublethal.
 
HOWEVER, like Randy, as I stated earlier, this paper had nothing to do with 
 CCD.  And Randy is correct, one can not pick and choose quotes,  removing 
them from context, to support your hypothesis, both authors and readers  
have to exercise caution.
 
Like Randy, I agree when Bob and other beekeepers comment  that "colonies 
are not thriving on intensive agriculture".   Whether  its neonics, or other 
pesticides and poor nutrition is the real question  here.
 
Given the ability to limit contamination with treated seed versus other  
methods of application, the low risk to humans of neonics, and the known risks 
 of alternatives, let's be careful about hasty decisions.  

And, not to pick on you, Bob; but you are right,  TEMIK is nasty  - but as 
Randy  said, its not a neonic. It is a carbamate, and  that is the type 
product that I wouldn't want to be forced to go  back to.

 
Finally, virtually all pesticides have sublethal effects - we just haven't  
been very good at looking at these.  Our own work for the Army has  
capitalized on sublethal effects as markers of chemical exposure.   BUT, and this 
is important, many of these sublethal effects are of short  duration - 
impaired memory, disorientation, sounds may be altered for a short  time in 
individual bees.
 
As an example, bees respond to caffeine and alcohol in much the same ways  
as people.  A short term effect of a SMALL amount of caffeine - they learn  
faster.  Too much caffeine, they get agitated, jittery.  But, once the  
caffeine is metabolized, the bees go back to normal.  
 
Same with alcohol - too much kills bees, just like with people.  A  small 
amount, they get 'buzzed' - sorry, I couldn't resist the pun.  More,  and  
you've got drunk bees.  But, then they sober up.  With some  'drugs', they 
scrub their antenna, and they get 'high'.
 
The difficult question with sublethal effects - which of these, if any,  
threaten the integrity/health of the colony?  
 
With our bee training for landmine detection, we've experimented with both  
learning enhancers, and with methods that might be used by an enemy who 
would  want to covertly disrupt our trained bees.  Overall, the inherent 
training  and long term memory tend to persist over days and weeks, the altered 
states of  performance tend to be of short duration (seconds, minutes, hours).
 
So, I believe trials that say that exposure to neonics may impair memory  
and learning - just remember, exposure to any nerve agent will do the  same.  
And, in the short term, some bees that have been exposed to a  chemical 
that affects memory or orientation may get lost - as seen in tent  trials.  
 
However, anyone using tent or 'semi-field' trials have to be aware of  a 
well known problem - bees tend to go to the light and get trapped in the  
corners - trying to get out.  Somehow, bumblebee tend to adjust to  confinement 
in tents, greenhouses, much better than honey bees.  With  honey bees, we 
and others have noticed that older foragers - the field  force that has flown 
in 'freedom', rarely adjust well to confinement - many beat  themselves to 
death against the walls and ceilings.  There are lots of  'tricks' that can 
be used to reduce this wastage of bees, but it takes a lot of  experience to 
know how to reduce the tent effect - in essence, the tent or  greenhouse is 
often a primary factor in bee mortality.
 
But, bees in the field are much different than bees in greenhouses and  
tents.  I'll bet that in the field,  if we were to mark and  follow bees 
exposed to a pesticide that induces memory loss or  disorientation, and assuming 
something like a bird or cold weather doesn't  remove disorientated or 
forgetful bees, my 'guess' - most of the field  bees will recover and go home.  
 
Jerry
 
 
 
 


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