I agree. And I am sure we can agree on most things. It is one thing to put
forward ideas and quite another to insist on them. Part of democracy is
accommodating other people's ideas.
Toby
> This seems a more practical approach indeed an is in line with the way we
> have conducted business up to now within the Coalition.
>
> Milton Ponson, President
> Rainbow Warriors Core Foundation
> (Rainbow Warriors International)
> Tel. +297 568 5908
> PO Box 1154, Oranjestad
> Aruba, Dutch Caribbean
> Email: [log in to unmask]
>
> CorruptionWatch Aruba is a local component of the Global Campaign Project
> Paradigm of Rainbow Warriors International, focusing on monitoring the
> rule of law, functioning and performance of the executive, legislative and
> judicial powers in Aruba and is member of the UNCAC coalition, promoting
> the UN Convention against Corruption
>
>
> --- On Tue, 8/31/10, Kirstine Drew <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> From: Kirstine Drew <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: RES: Coalition Basic Document
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Date: Tuesday, August 31, 2010, 11:45 AM
>
> Dear colleagues,
>
> What about aiming to do this by consensus resorting to a voting
> procedure only where there is no agreement?
>
> Best
>
> Kirsty
>
>
>
> On 31 August 2010 20:36, Fernando Di Lascio <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Dear Milton, Gillian and all members of the WG-CC,
>
> I agree with you and add that there is a huge difference between
> participatory democracy and direct democracy, this put into effect,
> usually through referenda, plebiscites and bills of popular initiative. In
> Brazil, our main work is aimed at implementing the mechanisms of direct
> democracy envisaged in our Constitution and on this path we have met
> significant opponents and made significant advances in the past decade and
> shall continue to advance.
>
>
> Amongst us, true participatory democracy presupposes the existence of
> direct operational democracy mechanisms, capable of resolving conflicts of
> interest among elected officials and representatives of civil society.
> Therefore, in my view, participatory democracy without empowerment of
> civil society is only an exercise of Machiavellian political demagoguery.
>
>
> Even though I am very fond of discussing democracy, I think we should
> proceed with the utmost possible objectivity and paying the utmost
> attention to practical issues, to avoid the risk of engaging in
> theoretical discussions, or philosophy, that could slow or even derail the
> work that we undertake, unless they are absolutely necessary.
>
>
> As our objective is to offer, for the appreciation of all members of the
> Coalition, a text proposing the rules of engagement and coordination in
> the work of the Coalition on the monitoring, supervision and other tasks
> related to the performance of civil society in UNCAC, as planned, both
> internally in the signatory countries, as in the international review.
>
>
> So, I suggest doing a practical exercise in our Working Group with Gillian
> acting as draftsperson who shall propose a text based on the original text
> incorporating the earlier proposed amendments, which she deems
> appropriate.
>
>
> Then, we shall allow a period of three days for interested parties to
> propose amendments to Gillian’s text and at the end of three days would
> allow a further period of three days to vote on the proposed amendments.
> Following this, Gillian, as draftsperson of the process, would incorporate
> into the text of those amendments approved by the majority.
>
>
> Therefore we can arrive in Bangkok with a constitutive text ready, or
> nearly ready for final vote, by the Working Group, only remaining to
> discuss there, the deadlines and strategies for us to present this text to
> the members of the Coalition and also deadlines and strategies to carry
> out the constitutive election of the Coordination Committee.
>
>
> It seems to me that we need to schedule at least a two-day meeting in
> Bangkok, if we want to expedite this process.
>
> Best regards.
>
> Fernando
>
>
>
>
> De: Coalition WG on Coordination Committee
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Em nome de CorruptionWatchAruba
>
> Enviada em: segunda-feira, 30 de agosto de 2010 23:33
>
> Para: [log in to unmask]
> Assunto: Re: RES: Coalition Basic Document
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dear Fernando,
>
> The United Nations adheres to a set of fundamental Human Rights Treaties
> as the backbone for all issues related to human rights, rule of law and
> democracy.
>
>
> In principle these are reflected in all international treaties including
> UNCAC.
>
> Participatory democracy is based on a trias politica with a varying number
> of legal instruments and other recourses for checks and balances.
>
>
> In matters where decisions have to be made votes must be carried by a
> majority, but the will of the people at large is expressed through polls,
> referenda and other consultative events where all the people cast ballots.
>
>
> Being a bearer of a European Union passport, Dutch of nationality and
> Caribbean/Latin American in terms of residence I must stress the need to
> tread carefully.
>
> Our task as the WG as I see it,is to come up with a constitution for the
> Coalition with some additional documents which must be put to the vote by
> all members of the Coalition.
>
>
> Our work should reflect at all times the best intention to capture all the
> essence required to run the coalition in a way which best meets the set
> mission and objectives, while at the same time guaranteeing the highest
> level of internal integrity and transparency towards the outside world.
>
>
> In short we must practice what we preach to the outside world.
>
> We must not overstep the task we set ourselves, we volunteered to do this
> but were not elected to do so by the UNCAC Coalition at large.
>
> So the best we can come up with is a set of documents, procedures etc.
> where based on consensus, which may include casting votes where deemed
> necessary, but in the end the final word will be up to all the current
> members of the UNCAC Coalition.
>
>
> I admire your drive to stick to rules and procedures, but bear in mind
> that participatory democracy is much more than just that.
>
> So in the current tasks we have set ourselves we are allowed a bit more
> flexibility, the end products decided upon by the general body of all
> UNCAC Coalition members we can be more rigid.
>
>
> The point I am trying to make that we cannot expect with 100% certainty to
> reach a majority outcome vote on every single issue we may want to vote on
> at this stage, some final votes may have to be settled by all the members.
>
>
> Milton Ponson, President
> Rainbow Warriors Core Foundation
> (Rainbow Warriors International)
> Tel. +297 568 5908
> PO Box 1154, Oranjestad
> Aruba, Dutch Caribbean
> Email: [log in to unmask]
>
>
> CorruptionWatch Aruba is a local component of the Global Campaign Project
> Paradigm of Rainbow Warriors International, focusing on monitoring the
> rule of law, functioning and performance of the executive, legislative and
> judicial powers in Aruba and is member of the UNCAC coalition, promoting
> the UN Convention against Corruption
>
>
>
> --- On Sun, 8/29/10, Fernando Di Lascio <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> From: Fernando Di Lascio <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: RES: Coalition Basic Document
> To: [log in to unmask]
>
> Date: Sunday, August 29, 2010, 10:58 AM
>
>
> Dear fellows of the WG - CC.
>
> As I see it, in a WG as ours, a fundamental principle must prevail: The
> will of the majority.
>
> Thus, each chapter of the document on which the Coalition, and the rules
> for the election of the Coordination Committee - CC will have to be
> approved by the majority. Firstly in our WG and then in the Coalition.
>
>
> Therefore, criterias and dates for the vote of each stage can and should
> be established.
>
> Best wishes,
> Fernando
>
>
>
>
> De: Coalition WG on Coordination Committee
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Em nome de Gillian Dell
>
> Enviada em: domingo, 29 de agosto de 2010 08:02
> Para: [log in to unmask]
> Assunto: Re: Coalition Basic Document
>
>
>
>
> Hallo WG members,
>
> It's great to see so many ideas flowing for our constitutive document. I
> hope there is not a problem with Amalia's email--Amalia could you advise
> about the message below?
>
>
>
>
> In terms of keeping track of the WG discussion, please note that there
> are currently six main documents as grouped below:
>
> (i) Original draft that was circulated by me
>
> (ii) Ifthekar's, Fernando's and Robert's proposed revisions to that draft
>
> (iii) Eric's proposed additional core principles
>
> (iv) Elina's suggested additional vision and values
>
> In addition, I've received a positive feedback from Maud as well as some
> comments and proposed revisions from Oluajo.
>
> Further, Milton has raised the important issue of languages and
> referenced some CIVICUS standards, which I think might better be addressed
> in subsequent sections--but I'm happy to look at any suggested text for
> the section we are currently working on.
>
>
> (Please let me know if I left someone out.)
>
>
>
> As a proposed next step, I suggest that I take these and any other
> comments received by Tuesday and incorporate them into a REVISED draft
> segment-- including annotations or accompanying commentary-- and circulate
> this section to the WG again at the end of the discussion process, in the
> fourth week, along with revisions to other parts of the document that we
> will be discussing.
>
>
>
>
> I suggest that we also add a week to the timetable to allow for a full
> discussion of the final draft prior to the discussion of Next steps.
>
>
>
> Does that sound like it would work?
>
>
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Gillian
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Coalition WG on Coordination Committee on behalf of Kostanyan Amalia
> Sent: Sun 29/08/2010 11:33
>
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Legitimate Transparency and Accountablity in CSO networks
>
> Chem nayel, bayc karogh e henc dra masine, vor menq verjers khosum einq.
>
>
> From: Coalition WG on Coordination Committee
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of CorruptionWatchAruba
>
> Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 9:03 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Legitimate Transparency and Accountablity in CSO networks
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Civicus, a global civil society organizations' watchdog has developed
> guidelines for Legitimate Transparency and Accountability for CSOs and CSO
> networks.
>
> See:
>
> http://lta.civicus.org/component/content/article/48-legitimacy-accountabilit%20y-and-transparency-guideline
>
>
> and LTA Home: http://lta.civicus.org/.
>
> Good idea to take a look at these and make sure we stick to the same
> guidelines.
>
>
> Milton Ponson, President
> Rainbow Warriors Core Foundation
> (Rainbow Warriors International)
> Tel. +297 568 5908
> PO Box 1154, Oranjestad
> Aruba, Dutch Caribbean
> Email: [log in to unmask]
>
>
> CorruptionWatch Aruba is a local component of the Global Campaign Project
> Paradigm of Rainbow Warriors International, focusing on monitoring the
> rule of law, functioning and performance of the executive, legislative and
> judicial powers in Aruba and is member of the UNCAC coalition, promoting
> the UN Convention against Corruption
>
>
>
>
>
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> --
>
> Kirstine Drew
> UNICORN: A Trade Union Anti-corruption Network
> office: 33 1 55 37 37 39
> mobile: +33 6804 29239
> email: [log in to unmask]
> web: www.againstcorruption.org
>
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___________________________________
Toby Mendel
Centre for Law and Democracy
[log in to unmask]
Tel: +1 902 431-3688
Fax: +1 902 431-3689
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