----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brian Ames" <[log in to unmask]>

>>Apparently none of them have looked at the last Penn State M Frazier 
>>analysis. No imid or neonics even in the top 20 pesticides found in CDD 
>>wax, bees or pollen, a convenient fact that is often omitted.

It's quite possible that we've traded high profile damage for subtle, but 
also serious damage. It's already happened with other pesticides. Beekeepers 
who had a terrible time with Penncap M and Sevin dust, etc., breathed a sigh 
of relief as these were replaced with faster acting but less residual 
materials like pyrethroids. If pyrethroids were sprayed according to the 
label, when bees were not present, they did pose little problem.

But I have seen where they were used at mid-day (in violation of the label 
and the contract). There was little sign of poisoning at the hives. They 
just suddenly became weak. But you could walk a cucumber or squash field and 
see 3-5 dead bees in every square yard. I never did calculate the number of 
bees per acre, but it was a devastating loss, anyway.

I doubt that any significant residue could be found within the hives, 
because the bees that were poisoned never made it home.

This could be construed as an improvement, because there was no ongoing 
poisoning; poisoned pollen wasn't being stored away for winter, nor was it 
being fed to brood and causing death. But a hive that was hit would lose 
much of its foraging population, which had to be replaced - thus using up 
stores instead of adding to them. Hives thus poisoned would survive, but 
then starve, if not copiously fed.

Rather than just claim there's no evidence - the industry would be much 
better served if we looked for the bees that did NOT return to the hive. 
I'll bet you'll find them, if you look in the logical places.

Dave 

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