>>We have already agreed on that in debunking the extender patty myth, but 
>>it the same for all antibiotics?  I think not.

> Allen, I feel that many would not agree with you that the extender patty 
> influence on OTC resistance is either a myth, nor has it been debunked.

There are still some who argue the world is flat.  Truth is not decided by a 
vote.

> I feel feel that this discussion has made a good case for supporting the 
> hypothesis that misuse of the patties contributed to resistance!

Why pick on patties?  We are agreed that misuse of OTC generally contributed 
somewhat to resistance, (but not to what extent it affected the inevitable) 
so why specify one delivery method?

One of the biggest abuses was to use OTC in the absence of alternatives and 
without any rotation.  That was far a more significant contributor than the 
delivery methods.  The fact that OTC was marginally effective at best, 
anyhow when compared to sulfa, and now Tylan.

ONLY WHEN SULFA WAS OUTLAWED,  DID WE SEE HOW WEAK AND VULNERABLE OTC IS AS 
A CONTROL.  Up until then sulfa did all the hard lifting.  OTC was a 
secondary treatment and it's claim to fame was that it eliminated EFB. 
Those who are going without treatments are being reminded of this this each 
spring if they are observant.

Only the old guys apparently can remember this.

>  >I'm seeing less AFB, but have not used Tylan to any extent.
>> What does, "to any extent" mean?

> I use it for a single dose when I do "shake and bake"--the shaking of AFB
> colonies onto combs of foundation, prior to burning the old frames.

 >> >Your neighbours may be using Tylan...

> Other than my temporary "neighbors" in almonds, none are.

I believe them.  Thousands would not.

>> Stay vigilant.

> Allen, I get the feeling that you are misreading me.  I am not condemning 
> judicious antibiotic use.

Randy, I am not misreading you and I am addressing the issues, not specific 
people.  Frankly, I do not care who brings in an idea and if I pick over 
that idea, I am not picking over the person.  You may note that I leave 
names and attributions off quotes and try to avoid addressing people 
directly (exception here) since I prefer open conversation with all 
participating and find that discussion flows better if people do not get 
cornered in any position.

> It's been quite a few years, but this method has worked for me (knock on
> wood).  Before you fire off a retort, I'm not recommending it for anyone
> else, since I do something that most do not--I individually inspect every
> frame in my operation each spring when we nuc up all our colonies.  At 
> that
> juncture, it is easy to find AFB at an early stage.

I think it is a good method for small outfits.  As with many things, one 
size does not fit all.   I'm finding I have to go back there if I do not 
want to blanket treat everything on a schedule.

I'm still experimenting.  What I have learned if that quite a few people who 
have good luck in the short term try to prescribe to others and the result 
is likely as not, eventual disaster. 

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