Hello Peter B. & All,

> forthcoming on the exact issue of African bee genetics and its effect  on
> commercial beekeeping, except Bob, who says that it isn't a  problem. But
> no details are ever given.

Most commercial beekeepers deal with the cards they are dealt. Many have
said the same as me at national meetings but even I say little at small
beekeeper gatherings. Those beekeepers have not observed what I have and
they tend to follow what they have read. The first problem with the advance
Of AHb from Brazil was the B. movies and then researcher hype.
However:
In Brazil many people were killed by stinging bees as well as livestock.
Well documented. The same was predicted for Mexico and the U.S..
Luckily for us did not happen!

If a member of BEE-L wants to observed documented hives of AHb you can
travel to both the Weslaco & Tucson Bee Labs. The Weslaco lab used AHb in
the field tests of HFCS. Contact Pamela Gregory.


> Bob seems to boil it down to 1) he can tell African bees by their
> behavior,

After fifty years of observing bees I can tell the traits of AHb by looking
( exactly like Brother Adam explained after observing a. mellifera
scutellata on his trip to gather scut queens for his breeding program).

The pure scut or highly AHb hive always displays a portion of these traits
such as running on frames, flying into air leaving the frame basically free
of bees and festooning and queens leaving the brood laying area when
disturbed.

I ask the list.

Do you see these traits in European hives? I do not!



2) the Lab testing is bogus,

bogus is a bit harsh. I like what I said which was :
quote:
"the famously inaccurate fabis test"

I have done the test myself  in Florida while doing the article on AHB in
Florida. The part I did did not do was  *slide preparation* which is the
most critical part.

The short comings of the test were shown to me by Jerry Hayes. Jerry has
pushed for an easier and more accurate test.

With the Fabis test ( for those not familiar) you take 10 sample bees. You
place three parts on a slide being very careful with placement as the clear
can cause a false reading . Then slide by slide you click on the parts at
various areas. Human error here is not only possible but happens! Once all
the measurements are entered into the computer the computer kicks out a
number.
Then you go to the charts and get the Percent of Africanization.

Jerry Hayes hoped for a test tube test where you could grind up the bee and
add a reagent and match the color to test for AHB which could be done in the
field.

One Fabis drawback is the test needs done in Gainesville , Florida in the
lab and the test is an AVERAGE of 10 bees.

WHAT IF ONLY ONE BEE IS AHB AND HAS DRIFTED INTO A EUROPEAN HIVE?
The other 9 are European?

Get my drift?

and 3) African bees can be
> manageable. Anyone who has been paying attention realizes that this is  a
> circular argument which leads nowhere.

I get queens from several suppliers and some queens produce bees which are
not as docile as others. All these bees are manageable in a commercial
setting. I today get maybe one in a 100 which I depopulate while still in
the nuc yard because of aggression. These bees are not worth keeping around
as they upset other hives when large production hives. These bees came from
U.S. queen producers. I have used this procedure for fifty years. Long
before AHB.

Beekeepers in areas of AHb use the same procedure with their hives. Too
aggressive get depopulated. Some of the above AHB traits I described might 
be
tolerated EXCEPT taking to the air which is a prelude to stinging. A hive
which is quick to take to the air when worked *properly* with smoke and
contains bees which respond with stinging enmass when only a sting or two
are done have no place in my operation. Usually I give the hive the benefit
of the doubt but after a few visits I depopulate those hives.


The fact that many hives in Mexico carry African genetics does not make
those hives unworkable *if* you follow the policy of depopulation of
aggressive hives. Remove those drones from the breeding pool.

Researchers have put forth requeening with European queens as the answer but
most beekeepers in areas of AHb know is not the solution. The solution for
commercial beekeepers is to not kill the queen leaving those drones in the
breeding pool but to DEPOPULATE the hive in evening when all the bees are in
the hive.


> Ernesto has repeatedly told me in person that Africanized bees are
> unsuitable for real beekeeping, that they are utilized in Africanized
> areas by necessity and not choice.

From my observation the above is not true but might be with the beekeepers
Ernesto has observed. Again researchers teach requeening or attempting to
with European queens ( leaving the AHB mature drones in place). I teach kill
the aggressive bees with drones!

from where I sit my plan works and the researcher plan is a poor solution!

Simpler and without losing multiple queens trying to requeen , plus labor 
involved , plus trips to the bees and not to forget leaving all those AHb 
drones in your yards!

sincerely,
Bob Harrison

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