> The fact that Randy Oliver or Brian Ames

> feel there is enough research to eliminate the neonicotinoids as problems
> for bees does not change what I have seen first hand.
>
> Bob, I do not recall either of us saying that any pesticide is *never a
problem*--insecticides kill insects, and bees are insects.  I merely do not
support the hypothesis that the neonics are the major cause of colony
collapses.  I am glad to see that you and I are in agreement!

A recent review by Higes in Spain (in press) found no link between the
neonics and colony depopulations.  What was of interest to me, is that he
found that colony exposure to sunflowers (widely blamed in Spain for losses)
as reported by beekeepers, was not supported by pollen analysis of the
combs!  In other words, he found that beekeepers were not reliable reporters
of which crops their colonies were actually visiting.

>I think you and Brian need to get your facts correct. Bayer has twisted
your mind so you can't think straight.

Bob, the fact is that my mind was already twisted before I ever heard of
neonicotinoids!  Fact is, I have never met "Bayer."  However, I have spoken
with some crop protection scientists who are in the employ of Bayer, but who
appear to actually be able to think for themselves.

> To say there is absolutely no research which points to the systemics being
a problem for bees when PPM is being found in pollen and nectar seems funny
to me.

Bob, to the best of my knowledge, you are the only one who has ever made the
above statement.

>Dave Mendes, dave Hackenberg, Gene Brandi, David elingsworth and others.
Are all these guys wrong?

Hardly.  I have spent quite a bit of time with the above, and respect their
observations, and work collaboratively with them.  We constantly
communicate.


 >Wow! You can produce CCD (when nobody really knows what it is) at will
(kindof like magic). Are you sure its CCD or that your bees are like *most
of the bees in

> California*. Kick the hive and the hive collapses?
>

Actually Bob, I never said that I produced CCD.  I said that the colonies
exhibited CCD-like symptoms shortly after inoculation with certain pathogens
extracted from a commercial beekeeper's collapsing colonies from the
previous year (that beekeeper is active in the group that you cited above).
Please note, Bob, that no one has ever been able to do the same by treating
a colony with neonicotinoids!

Randy Oliver

             ***********************************************
The BEE-L mailing list is powered by L-Soft's renowned
LISTSERV(R) list management software.  For more information, go to:
http://www.lsoft.com/LISTSERV-powered.html

Access BEE-L directly at:
http://community.lsoft.com/scripts/wa-LSOFTDONATIONS.exe?A0=BEE-L