> There are ways to guess if the hives will immediately collapse or just
> return to the normal probability of collapse.  I think Bob and Jerry can
> comment on this.

I think what is being overlooked by Peter is the risk being taken on by the
commercial beekeeper.  When staring at maybe 90% of your hives dead what do
you do. Many in 2006/2007 decided to simply retire from beekeeping. Others
took out second mortgages on their houses or found ways to finance
rebuilding.

Dave Hackenberg said the cost for his rebuild was around $450,000 if I
remember correctly. Dave and I discussed his move and Dave said:
Beekeeping is all I have ever done! People depend on my hives for
pollination & honey. Sure after over thirty years I am old enough to throw
in the towel and quit but I wanted Davy ( his son) to take over the
business. So Dave went deeply in debt to rebuild. Dave had the means to get
the funding (excellent credit and a understanding banker) and money was not
frozen back then.

Many young commercial beekeepers are not in the situation Dave and i are in.
These are the beekeepers which need a hand up.

my answer to the asked question:
If I had hives which crashed with CCD symptoms i would not replace bees in
those hives without treating each frame with a Clorox solution. Glacial
Acetic acid is easier but the main U.S. source only sells in a 55 gallon 
drum and
not cheap. If a member of the list knows of a source for smaller quantities
please email me the source.

> Again this is not a problem that someone who has not been in business for
> years would understand.

Agreed!

Allen you did an excellent job of explaining in the earlier post!

. I had an inquiry from a board member of a national association about maybe
you doing a presentation on the subject.


> I recall back in the seventies, going to my bank with a good proposal with
> a government guarantee  and being turned down.

Happens all the time. Money is tight right now for all but those with the
best credit and those with collateral.

 My operation has been paid for for many years. My house is paid for. I can
easily walk into any bank and toss down titles to 6 trucks, two loaders and
five trailers and get funds but beekeepers starting out are not in the same
position. At least I wasn't.

My grandfather backed me. Bought my first hives and later my first flatbed
truck.  Grandfathers are easier to get money from when a teenager than a
bank.

A little known story:
Horace Bell ( Horace Bell Honey Deland, Florida and sold around 97,000 hives
when he retired) and I were working bees together in the fifties. Horace was
a year older than me. I was too young to get an operators license so Horace
had to drive my flatbed or I could drive as long as a person with a valid
operators license was in the truck. We worked bees constantly when not in
school. Beekeeping was our project in the Future Farmers of America. Even
today If I have a beekeeping issue I can not figure out Horace Bell is my go
to person. Without a doubt the most knowledgeable beekeeper I ever met!

Back to the story:
 If you have seen the recent movie release "Australia" the Australians say a
persons *story* is important. Hugh Jackman tries to explain the Australian 
concept of
"story" to Nicole Kidman. A movie worth seeing in my opinion!

We were doubling our numbers constantly but was not fast enough for Horace.
So he went to the USDA for a loan. They said he had to be at least 18 to
apply. We went to a lawyer and with his parents permission the judge
declared Horace Bell 18 and responsible for his own bills.
He recieved the loan.

The first loan was for 4,000 dollars and Horace purchased 4000 hives.

The hives were hand loaded on semis and trucked north for fireweed honey in
a burned off area of Minnesota. Horace paid off the 4000 loan and borrowed
10,000 to buy hives ( a hell of a lot of money in the late fifties.)

the next trip "following the bloom" was with over 10,000 hives. At the time
Horace Bell was not even 21 years old and already one of the largest
beekeepers in the U.S.. I think Richard Adee was in college with around 500
hives at the time.

My new beekeeping partner is around 20 years old and now owns Bell Hill
Honey. He does not have the drive Horace did but with Glenn Davis and I 
looking over his
shoulder hopefully he will be a successful beekeeper. He was home schooled
and started working with Glenn Davis and I  ( former owner Bell Hill Honey
and my best friend) when he was 13 years old ( with his parents
permission).

Glenn told the kid if he worked hard one day he could own Bell
Hill Honey. Last year Glenn & I would grade his performance about a D minus
but he has picked up the pace this spring.

Last year he thought he really didn't need our advice. He thinks we have
became smarter this year it seems so asking our advice. He needs us to drive
his big truck as he is too young to get a CDL. Sound familiar?

He advertised his last years bulk honey in drums and did not get a call (
price i think) so I bought his crop. Now he has cash flow to operate! I am
no Santa Claus but i want the kid to realize that he needs to make friends
with other commercial beekeepers as those guys will be the first to help
when problems arise.

bob

             ***********************************************
The BEE-L mailing list is powered by L-Soft's renowned
LISTSERV(R) list management software.  For more information, go to:
http://www.lsoft.com/LISTSERV-powered.html

Access BEE-L directly at:
http://community.lsoft.com/scripts/wa-LSOFTDONATIONS.exe?A0=BEE-L