Ron:

I am sorry that you have had such bad experiences with bottle hunters and I 
agree there are those who do a lot of damage and I will not associate with 
them. I have signed the Code of ethics for SHA, SAA, RPA and SCA and will 
not condone unauthorized excavations without professional oversight.  I have 
recruited Elderfolk bottle hunters and metal detectorists in Arizona, 
Florida and California and placed them under my supervision to do good 
archaeogeophysical studies and archaeological excavations under my 
supervision.  I show them how we can get information from the soil and not 
JUST some bottles that in most cases are nearly worthless. In my studies, I 
teach them the necessity of documentation and careful excavation just as the 
AAS teaches and certifies in Arizona.  My elderfolk diggers become aware of 
and appreciative of the importance and the potential story behind a single 
nail, ceramic, piece of glass or magnetic anomaly because I TELL THEM A 
POSSIBLE STORY OF THAT ARTIFACT OR ANOMALY.  That converts them right away. 
I have NEVER had a problem with bottle hunters who willing agreed to 
volunteer on my excavations and abide by the protocols that I laid down for 
proper and scientific excavation practices as per the AAS guidelines.   I 
have had LESS PROBLEMS with Elderfolk bottle hunter volunteers than with 
archaeology students, who, generally, do NOT have an appreciation of the 
past and are terribly trained in basic field methods, which Elderfolk from 
their past miltary or civilian experiences ARE TRAINED!

Sincerely,

Rich Lundin, WRI
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ron May" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 5:26 PM
Subject: Re: More about bottle digging


> Um, Richard, are you really thinking about what  you are saying?  Bottle
> hunters rip through archaeological features with total abandon, tossing 
> aside
> broken artifacts as if they were stones or cow poop. All the bottle 
> excavation
> sites I have observed resembled bomb craters from combat zones. Most  of 
> us
> signed codes of ethics against collaboration with people who loot 
> historical
> archaeology sites. And while collectors can be valuable sources of 
> information,
> we cannot allow the lure of oral history override our professional  need 
> for
> preservation of historic contexts. Working with bottle collectors  before 
> they
> assault a site is preferable. But even better would be to work them  into 
> an
> archaeology lab, where their knowledge can contribute greatly to
> interpretation. I know of at least one good archaeologist in San Diego who 
> converted a
> bottle looter and made him a fairly good archaeologist. But really,  we 
> need to
> keep this in perspective, because once gone the features cannot be 
> replaced.
>
> Ron May
> Legacy 106, Inc.
>
>
> In a message dated 9/29/2008 4:10:08 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> [log in to unmask] writes:
>
> Bill:
>
> That is absolutely ridiculous. Such legalistic, IRB  academic garbage will
> lose the trust of valuable informants. When I did my  thesis work with the
> last decendents of a VERY EPHEMERAL 1880's gold  processing site, I was 
> told
> flatly that they would not sign an IRB consent  form BUT would talk with 
> me
> informally.  I took that opportunity and  was glad that I did as they were
> last living memories of  Seymour  Arizona and died the next year.  I have
> found in my contacts with  bottle hunters that they are VERY KNOWLEDGEABLE 
> of
> bottle types, history  and dates.  My experience is that, if asked, they 
> are
> willing and  careful participants in professional\avocational historic 
> site
> investigations along with metal detectorists, whom I have used on several
> occasions for Class I archaeogeophysical surveys-their work is invaluable 
> in
> determining which archaeogeophysical and archaeochemical methods to use 
> on a
> particular site.
>
> Keep up your contacts with these people and  you will both benefit. 
> Claudia
> and I will gladly join you and your  bottle seeking groups and convert 
> them
> into avocational archaeologists  with local archaeological societies such 
> as
> the AAS-that is where the REAL  FUN is and the pot lucks on
> professional\avocational digs are  GREAT!
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Richard J. Lundin BA, MA, RPA,  ISAP
> Consulting Historical Archaeologist & Remote Sensing Specialist
> (Archaeogeophysics)
> Director, Wondjina Research Institute
> -----  Original Message ----- 
> From: "Lockhart, Bill"  <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent:  Monday, September 29, 2008 1:56 PM
> Subject: More about bottle  digging
>
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I received the following in  response to my informal observation of the 
>> New
>> Mexico bottle  dig:
>>
>> I really wonder what New Mexico State University's  Institutional Review
>> Board (IRB) would think of your impromptu  reporting/faux ethnography
>> exercise? Did you disclose your intentions  to these folks? Did you get
>> informed consent from them? Your  university should take appropriate
>> remedial action if you did  not.
>>
>> My reply was:
>>
>> Of course, I informed  everyone present about exactly what I was doing 
>> and
>> why I was asking  questions.  They agree with me that it would be very
>> helpful if  archaeologists knew what collectors were doing and thinking 
>> and
>> vice  versa.
>>
>> Everything was also done in a public setting.   Observations of public
>> settings is open to any interpretation,  anyway.
>>
>> Bill
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Bill  Lockhart
>> Associate Professor of Sociology
>> New Mexico State  University
>> Alamogordo, NM
>> (575) 439-3732
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
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