Hello Jim & All,
After reading your post it seems we are saying the same thing except maybe
you pulled some information from the net ( as always) and I was on the front
lines of the situation back then

> So, Bob's "truth check" seems to need a "fact check".

 Lets let the BEE-L readers decide. First hand knowledge or information
pulled off the net.

> No, that's not right - Back in 1999, Florida pulled a
> very cute gambit, and was able to convince the EPA to
> allow a Section 18 for coumaphos use on BOTH varroa and SHB.

I traveled to DeLand, Florida in fall 1998 to look at small hive beetle (in
archives) and advise the beekeeper with the first find. Have you ever seen a
hive infested with small hive beetle (SHB)  Jim? No need to answer as really
does not matter but I have seen plenty in many states.

We had no effective control in SHB 1998.

It seems that neither Jim nor Aaron have ever used checkmite so let me shed
some light for those reading.

The real beekeeping history of the time.

 The internet can provide information for those searching but to get all
your information from the net can lead to misinformation.

At the time of the small hive beetle find in DeLand ,Florida ( town I was
raised in ) the beekeeping industry was losing a huge number of hives to
varroa resistant to fluvalinate. In fact one Georgia researcher said apistan
only killed 2% of the varroa in his tests. Florida was seeing fluvalinate
resistant varroa ( apistan -fluvalinate for newbees) as was most of the
commercial beeks in the U.S. After all Apistan had been in use since the
first and the only legal control other than Mitacur (amatraz) for a few
months followed by a strip recall. I would love to share the behind the
scenes on that story but better not.

I know many beeks (other than myself) do not have a copy of"The Varroa
Handbook" published in 1988 but the book lists the top 100 controls
effective to control varroa. Remember beeks in Europe had been fighting
varroa for years. Coumaphos was listed next to fluvalinate as the next best
possible control and was in use in Italy where the Italians had fluvaliante
resistant varroa.

Commercial beeks sought advice from many researchers and also the Italian
beeks which had been using a coumaphos based strip. Fluvalinate use and
coumaphos use followed what was done in Europe exactly. I in fact spoke out
against the industry using both at the time because of possible long term
problems.
Similar to the neonicotinod issue of today I had no proof coumaphos would
cause problems so was told to shut up at gatherings when I raised the issue.
Proof would come later.

> But it was still disingenuous in the extreme to allow
> coumaphos anywhere near a beehive.

Hind site is always 20-20 Jim but you were not in the circle making the
decisions nor needed a cure for the problems facing the collapse of our
commercial beekeeping industry. Your opinion was popular with beeks not
making a living from bees but not with those needing a cure for fluvaliante
resistant varroa.

At the time coumaphos was being used in Italy ( I think for around 3 years)
without reported problems.
Strips from Italy were tested ( as finally registered under section 18) in
experiments to control SHB and were found to help but not kill *all* small
hive beetle and in fact some SHB seemed unaffected and tracked the
coumaphos all over the hive BUT not different than bees tracking the powder
all over the hive when used in the hive to control varroa.

Tests on hives over threshold with varroa reveled the most potent varroa
killer ever seen.

 Fact.

I have seen over 3,000 varroa on a sticky board in a matter of hours.
Compare to 200-300 for Miteaway or thymol in 24 hours. One strip would clear
a hive of varroa fast. Again no reported contamination problems from Italy
*at time time* nor from the maker.

The industry had its back to a wall as fluvalinate resistant varroa was the
big problem across commercial beekeeping country NOT SHB. SHB was always an
overblown problem which never really became the scourge researchers thought
it would be.

Checkmite was used under a section 18 in Florida and then in other states.
Beeks in states which refused to give a section 18 or drug their feet forced
beeks to simply travel to states which did have a section 18 to buy
checkmite. Get their fellow beeks to purchase for them.

Bees became resistant to coumaphos fast which none of us have ever fully
understood. Same in Italy.
Three years in Missouri. Both fluvaliante and coumaphos are worthless
against varroa in most areas and despite what some say trying to return to
those products has not worked even after years. I have a friend which tried
to return to Apistan after a researcher in Georgia said you could return to
apistan after three years. Lost his whole operation.

Yes I have used checkmite ( in archives) and I also changed all my brood
comb years ago which had ever had fluvalinate or coumaphos used( also in
archives).


> The only reason that Checkmite was needed was that
> Api-Life was viewed as "risky" in that it was
> temperature-dependent, and the performance curve
> had not been plotted with any authority, which made
> for uncertainty.  Some people killed bees with Thymol.

Totally not true . Thymol was a choice at the time as Steve Forrest was
close to registration of Api Life var but checkmite was better suited for
hives with high to over threshold varroa loads. Checkimite was always go
down in beekeeping history as the most effective varroa control ever used
against varroa in my opinion.

Its easy for many to critisize beekeeping history as hind site is always
20-20. Beeks have took a few wrong turns but so has the USDA with
quarantines etc. Makers and sellers of both apistan & checkmite sang a
different song back then saying both would not harm bees or queens and not
contaminate wax. Fluvaliante caused drone issues and coumaphos caused queen
problems in queen yards.

Thanks to Jim for taking the time to pull the section 18 facts off the net.

Now you know "the rest of the story"

bob

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