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Jack -
Thanks for chronicling this is so much detail. It is encouraging that  
it is happing in a church and not a classroom. My main question is:
Did he call it science? As long as he did not call it science, or try  
to affect political or education leaders into making laws and policies  
around Creationism, it is hard to find fault, as scary as it is.

I spent a few years duking it out with the Creationistas in my home  
school district. The big mistake they made was calling Creationism a  
science, so when I brought the ACLU in they argued "preaching, not  
teaching" on school grounds with school district funds. The district  
withdrew from their preposterous position that it was free speech.  
Apparently the proponents of this "Creation Science" (sorry about the  
alliteration), had threatened to sue the district on free speech  
grounds. And this was just a continuing education course!! Not  
surprisingly, Henry Morris' book "What is Creation Science" was the  
"textbook" used in the course.

If such a scenario presents itself to you in your situation, I suggest  
keeping out of the argument about any of the fine points of what is  
true or whose truth is truer. As you suggest, they have been  
impeccably trained to refute any reasonable scientific argument with  
prattle that is neither sound religiously, nor scientifically, but the  
"just so" stories that have characterized this group of con men (and  
they are usually men). The things they spout will just as well set  
sound theologians guffawing as they do sound scientists.

BUT, the laws that founded this country are capable of routing these  
creatures from our midst, and have consistently done so throughout our  
history, we just have to use them properly for them to work. Yes, it  
is a pain in the butt to have to waste time and energy keeping  the  
lions out of our camp that could be used to bring our children out of  
ignorance, but that is a reality and is part of the journey. Godspeed!


Stephen Miles Uzzo
New York Hall of Science
47-01 111th Street
Flushing Meadows Corona Park, NY 11368
USA
V +1.718.699.0005 x377
F +1.718.699.1341



On Jul 13, 2009, at 5:10 AM, Jack W Cannon wrote:

> ISEN-ASTC-L is a service of the Association of Science-Technology  
> Centers
> Incorporated, a worldwide network of science museums and related  
> institutions.
> *****************************************************************************
>
> A local (Lawrenceburg, TN) Church of Christ sponsored a seminar this  
> Saturday (July 11, 2009) entitled "Creation versus Evolution".  I  
> attended the seminar.  My reason for attending was that I wanted to  
> be prepared in the event that a school board or other governmental  
> entity might consider putting some form of Intelligent Design into  
> the school system and I wanted to understand the arguments that  
> might be presented.
>
> The speaker was Dr. Brad Harrub.  Dr. Harrub is an excellent  
> speaker; well-versed on the subject matter that he presents; and  
> offers quick responses to any and all questions.  This concludes the  
> positive comments.
>
> Dr. Harrub's primary position is that atheists, evolutionists,  
> ancient Greeks, and current educators are all the epitome of evil.   
> He had nothing good to say about any members of those groups.
>
> If it is not in the Bible then it doesn't exist and no  
> interpretation of the Bible is acceptable other than a strict  
> literal interpretation.
>
> Some interesting points of his presentation:
>
> * The earth is 6,000 years old.
>
> His proof was an analysis of the age at death that numerous  
> individuals achieved, starting with Adam and progressing through  
> Seth, Noah, Moses, Abraham, and many others.  The final individual  
> was Joseph but strangely absent was the amount of time that has  
> expired after Joseph's death.
>
> He supported his analysis with the claim (probably correct) that the  
> earth's magnetic field has lost 6% of its strength over the past 150  
> years.  He did not address the point that this analysis has the  
> earth losing its magnetic field within a 2,500 year period.  He did  
> imply that the earth started with a full strength magnetic field and  
> has been weakening in a linear manner at the 6% per 150 years rate  
> since God created it.
>
> * Man and dinosaurs have always co-existed.
>
> His proof was the crude drawings of animals inherent in Inca, Aztec,  
> Egyptian, and Cambodian cultures.  The drawings he presented  
> appeared to me to more closely resemble camels, vicunas and llamas.
>
> * Fire breathing dragons were real and actually were fire breathing  
> dinosaurs.
>
> His proof is that cows belch substantial amounts of methane.  So why  
> not dinosaurs.  The ignition source is easily explained since  
> fireflies possess just such a source.  (Really???)
>
> * Noah had dinosaurs on his ark.
>
> He claimed that Noah achieved this by taking the eggs of dinosaurs  
> instead of full grown Brontosaurus or Tyrannosaurus.  (I do not  
> recall God telling Noah to take eggs.)
>
> * The U.S. Navy designs its ships to correspond to the geometry of  
> Noah's ark.
>
> (I guess this is what they study at Annapolis.)
>
> * The dinosaurs were killed off by man.
>
> His proof is that man has always killed off all pests.
>
> * Dinosaurs are mentioned in the Bible.
>
> He stated that the term "dinosaur" was coined far to late to appear  
> in the Bible. (Okay, I will buy that.  It was coined in 1841 by Sir  
> Richard Owen.)
>
> He quoted the Book of Job, Chapter 40, verses 15-17.  As he quoted  
> those verses, he described a behemoth with a tail like a cedar.   
> (Okay, that sounds interesting.)
>
> However, verse 17 actually states that the behemoth's tail MOVES  
> like a cedar.  He stopped with verse 17.  If he had continued then  
> he would have revealed that this behemoth was capable of opening his  
> mouth and drinking up the entire Jordan river.  Ooops! That rules  
> out Argentinosaurus.
>
> For those still reading this, I offer the actual wording of Job,  
> Chapter 40, Verses 15-24.
>
> 15: Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as  
> an ox.
> 16: Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the  
> navel of his belly.
> 17: He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are  
> wrapped together.
> 18: His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars  
> of iron.
> 19: He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make  
> his sword to approach unto him.
> 20: Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts  
> of the field play.
> 21: He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and  
> fens.
> 22: The shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the  
> brook compass him about.
> 23: Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not: he trusteth  
> that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth.
> 24: He taketh it with his eyes: his nose pierceth through snares.
>
>
> It was not clear to me that the audience accepted the presentation.   
> I personally heard no one discussing it - either pro or con.  One  
> person did ask me about one of the ancient drawings that resembled a  
> stegosaurus and was presented as such.  I pointed out that while  
> there was some similarity, the tail was completely wrong (no  
> spikes), the drawing depicted a single row of plates while a  
> stegosaurus had two rows and that the head and neck of a stegosaurus  
> was much smaller than the drawing depicted.  In fact, the head and  
> neck of the drawing looked more like that of a camel.
>
> Dr. Harrub did present some pictures of an area being excavated.   
> The excavation was sufficiently large to expose many layers of  
> different types of sedimentation.  Within the vertical structure  
> were columns that appeared to be a homogeneous material.  Dr. Harrub  
> claimed that these columns were trees and was proof that different  
> layers of sedimentation did not represent different time periods.   
> If anyone has knowledge of such columns that I have just described,  
> please post it as I would like to understand this point.
>
> Jack Cannon
>
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