Hello Peter, David, Allen & All,

> Where are all those commercial beeks at?

Ask Jerry Hayes as Jerry usually ( not always) knows the area of large beeks 
overwintering in Florida and their location. May even provide a cell number.

I do not winter in Florida but have considered it. I have spent time (4-5
weeks) each winter in Georgia/Florida for years.  Many out of states beeks
come south to winter and make splits using cells they produce.
Cells are so easy to produce I am surprised a market for cells even exists.
We use the best and toss the rest .

The general rule for beeks wintering in the south is the interstate 20 line.

Bees winter good south of I 20 in Georgia or I 20 in Texas. Yet some in 
Florida want to
go all the way to Fort Meyers. Going as far south as Fort Meyers might help
as far as getting hives ready for almonds but basically anyplace south of I
20 will winter bees. Fort Meyers does not make sense to me for beeks from 
the Midwest as hives (other than those needed for apple pollination) need 
not be back before April in Missouri and maybe even May in the Dakotas.

My good friend Dann Purvis winters in south Georgia and sells cells. He does
advertise but can provide all the cells you need if given notice. Reg
Wilbanks used to sell early cells. Both these guys are only a few hours
drive from central Florida.

If getting a large amount I would pick up and transport myself.

Texas:
Commercial beeks in large numbers winter mostly from around Paris, Texas all 
the way to the coast with the largest concentrations in my opinion between 
Carthage and jasper.

When we raise cells in Texas we use the jenter system and need around 6-10 
systems. My eyes (as well as my partners ) are not the best so we have 
dropped grafting except for the eggs the queen lays between the cups. The 
problem with the jenter system is you need the comb cell box drawn before 
using to raise queens. A mistake often made by first time cell raisers 
trying to raise cells on new plastic with the cells undrawn.

Also cups need cleaned before reuse by the bees or you can simply use new 
cups (which is what we do if in a hurry).

Timing is the key to success plus prolific queens when caged and super 
strong cell builder and cell finisher colonies. if a strong flow is not on 
then you need to provide excellent nutrition for all parts of the operation.

The only queen rearing system I have use (other than grafting) has been the 
jenter. Others will need to comment on the Mann lake system which is 
advertised to raise I think four times as many cells as the jenter.



> I would love to go back to raising my own cells ,but just can't find time
> to do it and run bees right.

I think because cells are so cheap most would rather simply buy cells. Would 
you
find the time to raise cells if cells were around ten bucks a cell?

Cells can be pricey if cells are not viable ( 50% is not uncommon) or poorly 
raised and the queens are dinks and soon superceded.

>  There is a couple of guys that raise there cells but when you need a
> large amount at a set time you need to know you'll get them when you need
> them

Cell raisers usually start about twice as many as ordered so when you get 
90% raised (happens at times ) then you look for a place to sell those cells 
as if not sold or used most are tossed.

Cell use 101 for commercial beeks:

1. order cells but far more than you need. 125% ?   150%? if candling.

2. Pick up cells from cell raiser soon after sealed and transport in a
Styrofoam heated incubator if possible (12 volt to truck cigar lighter) to 
your location. Use wet sponge for humidity.

3. at your location have a G.O.F. egg incubator (used $125- 250 but can be 
homemade as all the parts can be purchased from the maker)  set and ready 
for the cells (
takes usually 48 hours to get temp & humidity correct) On mine I use the 
timer which turns the heat off and on with a single degree of accuracy . I 
used to hatch exotic bird  eggs for my self and others and found the better 
timer worth the money over the wafer type.

4. carefully place the cells in the incubator. You should have around 3 days
to make your splits ready. You obviously can leave the cells in the cell 
finisher but using an incubator makes raising a large number of cells 
faster.

4.a
 Havoc will happen if you get queens hatching the the incubator. If happens 
catch and cage the virgins and place in queen cages and release after a few 
hours. simply releasing right away does not produce the best takes in my 
opinion but others may have had better results.

5. Place the cells in the nucs after dark  the day before emergence  and
candle each cell. Toss cells which queens show no movement when candled .
If you candle night is the time to candle fast.

6. Important:
Do not move the nucs for at least two weeks for best take or until queen is 
laying solid patterns. It is my opinion bees will blame the move on the new 
queen and supercede her until they have totally accepted her. Others may 
disagree or perhaps disagree with everything I have said. If others on the 
list use a better method please post as I am here to learn also.

Also the longer the time the queen is in the hive laying before shipping 
north seems to help take. I have seen 3 out of four hives on a pallet 
queenless when back in the north when moved to quickly when using cells. 
Using mated queens hives can in my opinion can be moved sooner with success.

Rarely is the take better using cells than with mated queens but using cells 
is certainly cheaper. We have done everything right and still at times end 
up with less than a 25% take using cells. Certainly something was not right 
but whatever the problem was it was not obvious to us.

hope the above helps!

Sincerely,
Bob Harrison

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