In message <[log in to unmask]>, Chris Slade
<[log in to unmask]> writes
>
>It shouldn't be necessary to rotate super comb as frequently provided you've
>kept the queen out of them. However, as you're going to take the supers off
>anyway, why not simply cut out all the comb with honey, leaving a 'footprint'
>round the edge as a starter for next season? The honey could be separated
>from the wax by mashing and floating which preserves much more of the flavour
>than the usual centrifuge does and gives you an additional crop of valuable
>wax to harvest.
>
>You hear the argument that it takes X pounds of nectar to produce Y pounds
>of wax, but a glance at the debris on the floor under the mesh will
>always show
> wax scales, even during florally quiet times: the bees are going to produce
>wax anyway in a flow so you may as well let them put it to good use rather
>than waste it.
In a UK environment too of course, this is NOT a viable option if you
are looking to earn a living. Produces lovely showbench standard honey
for sure, but that brings no premium in the trade, only a sense of
satisfaction to the beekeeper.
Over many years of experiment, many years of hearing that starter strips
and new comb in the supers every year is a viable option, all this stuff
that is being repeated over and over again (sorry to pick your post
Chris, it could have been others) that it does not harm your crop and
improves your honey quality I have some pretty firm evidence backed
conclusions, garnished over several hundred colonies and over several
seasons, on the subject. I will accept that if your only focus is
showbench standards you may have a point. ( Even that is moot, as my
honey, bought and misrepresented as their own by amateur beekeepers, has
won prizes at major shows, and it is mostly done off drawn combs these
days.) However the idea that it does not harm quantity is nonsense (in
OUR environment).
Drawn comb brings comfortably the best honey harvest in terms of
quantity.
THICK foundation is next best.
Thin foundation is doubtful except in big flows and should only be used
if after comb honey.
Starter strips are a disaster and a complete false economy. (I think the
origin of their use is contained in the old name they had, and which
still refers to a form of their usage, which was a 'eke'. Eking out a
scarce resource, or one considered expensive?
In a big season, or over a small number of colonies, it IS possible to
see anomalous results. The odd colony does well enough to give grounds
to think it might work.
If you want percentages worked out over many years here you go.
Take drawn DEEP comb as the baseline (they do best on that) and call it
100..the rest are percentages over several years done in the 1980s
Drawn deeps 100
Drawn shallows 79
Foundation deeps 75
Foundation shallows 60
Thin super 48
Starter strips 22
Note.22%.........taken over years of trying all sorts of systems......in
a good flow and good season they do OK........but in a bad year with low
flows the crop is NIL. This is the main reason that the crops fall off
as you drop down the list...........the less convenient it is to dump
nectar fast in short windows of flow the less harvest you get. Starter
strips get a reduced harvest in a good year, and none at all at least
one year in three here, and these blanks are the primary reason the
systems overall performance is so paltry. Cell building is quick, midrib
building is much slower, hence even thin super has a performance more
than twice as good as starters.
A friend had 100 boxes on for cut comb this season in our heather area
and he got precisely zero over 100 hives. ( Not ONE piece of comb, and
nothing for chunking and squeezing/spinning) Heavy broodnests, even to
the point of brood raising being curtailed, which does not bode well for
winter....and exactly nothing in his shallows. Over the fence in some
cases similar strength colonies on mainly drawn deeps with no excluders
had an extracted crop in the low 50lb range. Both are commercial outfits
and both units were seen by me on our annual trip we have round
eachothers bees.
The friend trying for the cut comb chose his 100 best to do the job, the
rest he gave drawn comb to. He extracted a reasonable harvest from
those.
A different case:-
Two units in the same area in 2008. If anything the first one has the
better bees and equipment.
1. Uses mostly foundation. Total heather harvest 700lbs.
2. Uses mostly drawn deeps. Total heather harvest 26 tonnes.
Now, this was an *exceptionally* bad season for comb drawing on the
mountains, but the same pattern to a more limited extent is visible most
years.
btw.....unit 2 also has 3 times as many colonies as unit 1.........but
numbers come nowhere even close to explaining the difference.
I now only come on here very rarely indeed as I am in deep disagreement
with SOME of the most persistent contributors, in full agreement with
others. The tone of things and its slant towards fringe views does not
square with my experience and what I see in the field, and it only gets
fractious if you wade in, hence my absence for so long.
Will now retreat back to the bee work.
Murray McGregor
ps....wax? a valuable harvest? Tried selling it lately and costing in
all the things you should? Heating, transport, wages? Its a marginal
affair. Some years here it is worth processing cappings and old combs,
sometimes not.
fwiw........80p......USD 1.20........per lb was quoted to me recently if
I wanted to buy bulk purified wax (it was form Aus or NZ). You can get a
lot higher against goods here from appliance dealers, but then they
often have a huge margin on the goods so can afford to offer an inflated
price. Buying foundation etc for cash from a truly competitive dealer
reveals a different story. I can usually buy outright for less than the
BALANCE the leading traders want after my wax value has been deducted!
You have to do your sums before assuming a thing is valuable or not.
I DO usually process my wax, but am aware that many times that is
because of conditioning not to waste an asset, rather than because its a
viable thing to do.
--
Murray McGregor
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