Tim,
It is also called Hardware cloth.
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On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 10:05 AM, Lyle E. Browning <[log in to unmask]>wrote:
> I think it was George Miller who made a comment not long ago on this list
> about archaeologists needing to read economic history. Adrian has just
> brilliantly illustrated that point.
>
> Manufacturers go to where labor is cheap. That's basic Econ 101. BUT, when
> the quality goes down, that's when the regulatory agencies SHOULD come into
> focus. That they don't is something that the ASTMS folks should be climbing
> all over. But can one get them to do anything? Probably not for fear of
> offending anyone.
>
> Yes, the retailers buy cheap junk that is mostly made in China. That's a
> fact. I have also bought mattocks at various time with Polish and Indian
> "steel" that were soft iron and literally bent in soft coastal South
> Carolina sand with the first good swipe. I took them back and was accused
> by the store manager of "abusing" them. I got my money back. The point is
> that retailers will buy the cheapest stuff and unless somebody keeps an eye
> on them, quality can and does slip. I have seen 1/2" rat screen that's been
> out in the weather since 1972 that had it been 1/4" mesh, I would have been
> able to use it. That's how good the old stuff was and a reflection of how
> far standards have slipped.
>
> Besides which, 1/4" mesh screen isn't typically put to the use or wear
> that archaeologists normally inflict. Formerly, wire mesh was woven and the
> galvanization was thick. Some bright spark figured out that it was cheaper
> to overlay the strands and electro-galvanize the stuff, thus gaining an
> advantage over the competition. They were able to sell it for the same or
> less because it cost less to produce than the woven and galvanized stuff.
> Econ 101 again. And it has degraded in quality noticeably over the last 5
> years due to the decrease in galvanizing material applied to it on top of
> the electro-galvanizing methods used.
>
> I've talked with retailers and to distributors about the issue and get a
> lot of nothing. They usually say that the number of complaints is
> invariably 1 as in me, nobody polices the issue and we have no clout as
> archaeologists because our numbers are so low. We are using an outdated
> technology in essence. I had begun the process of attempting to find either
> woven wire or some variant of punched metal with 1/4" mesh but very luckily
> discovered a gigantic roll of the old stuff that is now being put to use.
> And no, I am definitely not willing to sell any;))
>
> As an aside, China does make IPhones and other apex techno-electronics and
> that has as much to do with their interest in acquiring the technology and
> the manufacturing capability as it does with selling it, but that's another
> story. Korea also makes top quality electronic products as well or so the
> legions who use other than IPhones allude;)
>
> The problem is that there is hardly anywhere else to turn. The technology
> that produces the junk is dominating the low end of the manufacturing
> spectrum. Once I run out of the old stuff, I'm going to be in a pickle.
> Real screens cost really big bucks, even if they're still made which is
> doubtful and are a significant part of the materials budget for any
> project. I can make the frames and cut the wire and put them together to
> save a bit, but in the end, if the screen is prohibitively expensive, one
> still has to buy it because we still have to screen.
>
> Further, Tim was being very specific about one particular item and where
> it was manufactured. It has the merit of being true. So your broad-brushing
> his comment into denigration of all things Chinese is more than a little
> absurd and off the mark by several parsecs. That label was formerly applied
> to Japanese electronics, then Korean and so forth and I do believe that
> once the technology improved, both Japan and Korea are recognized as
> producing some top-tier goods in not only electronics but several other
> manufacturing arenas.
>
> Low-end market stuff isn't going to disappear as long as there's a market
> for it and as long as it works past the warranty period, tough cookies for
> redress for poor quality. Econ 101, Marketing 101, Politics 101. To effect
> a change, see what the ASTMS standards are and rattle enough cages to make
> them apply those standards. But until that happens, you spend $1000 on a
> fridge, it breaks down one day after the warranty expires and you've not
> elected to go with the rip-off extended warranty, so you spend $220 on the
> CHEAPEST service call. Gone are the days when warranties were measured in 5
> years much less lifetime.
>
> George Miller was right, so what's unusual about that?
>
> Lyle Browning, RPA
>
> On Mar 23, 2013, at 12:14 PM, Adrian Myers wrote:
>
> > Hey Tim,
> >
> > My iPhone is made in China and it is the apex of technological
> > advancement and quality.
> >
> > My point being that the fact that the mesh you describe is of low quality
> > has nothing to do with it having been made in China, it has to do with
> the
> > American retailers you mention ordering a specific kind of mesh (metal
> > type, weave/non-weave, durability, expected uses, etc.) for a specific
> > price. Equating "Made in China" with "poor quality" is both bogus, and to
> > be honest, might be seen as slightly racist. Of course China makes lots
> of
> > cheap crap, but they also make highly advanced and durable things. And in
> > any case, the only reason THEY make it is because WE want it.
> >
> > I don't at all mean to be argumentative or accusatory towards you Tim
> > specifically, I just wanted to point out that I think it's a generalizing
> > stereotype that may have had some truth to it in the past, but not longer
> > does.
> >
> > And in my defence for going on this tangent (pre-emptive), I think this
> is
> > a very archaeological discussion, in more ways that one! I would be
> > interested in other people's opinion on this.
> >
> > Good luck finding the mesh you are looking for!
> >
> > Adrian
> > __________________________________________________________________
> > Adrian Myers, Doctoral Candidate | Department of Anthropology,
> Stanford
> > University
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 8:43 AM, Tim Bennett <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi everyone,
> >>
> >> Does anybody have a good source for 1/4 in hardware mesh? I did a quick
> >> search on the Listserv archives and there are a couple of mentions of
> it,
> >> but that was quite a few years ago, at least what was returned on the
> >> search parameters. The 1/4 in mesh/hardware cloth that is sold at big
> box
> >> stores such as Home Depot, Lowes, Menards, etc is not suitable for
> >> archaeological work, at least what is sold in my area of MI. The
> product
> >> they offer is made in China and is not woven and is very thinly
> galvanized.
> >> This screen is rendered useless after about 2 days of use. I did quite
> a
> >> bit of searching on the internet a couple of years ago but it seems that
> >> the only 1/4 mesh out there is the China made non woven stuff or high
> grade
> >> stainless steel, brass, etc that is mostly for commercial/industrial
> >> purposes. I have a chapter member that is in need of building some
> screens
> >> so if anyone has any sources of archaeological quality screen, it would
> be
> >> most appreciated.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Tim
> >>
>
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Anita Cohen-Williams
Organic SEO and Social Media Management
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