That is what I had suggested to you also...but had only heard of that scenario many yrs ago...with no source for it. Would Deni know of a documented source for this behavior? I would like to know one (or more?)...to back this up...when I tell this "wives tale" (or not) in the future (I've been spreading it for yrs).
Thanks.
-----Original Message-----
From: HISTORICAL ARCHAEOLOGY [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of David Legare
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 6:27 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: cartridges
I got a reply from Deni Seymour that I think may be right. Sorry about no photos. This was a survey project so all the examples were on the surface. There were literally hundreds of them scattered across the site in numerous calibers by different manufacturers. They were all centerfire and had been fired. They were all put out-of-round about 2/3 of the way from the base. None of these had the typical crimping found on blanks. Deni said that she thought it might have been a behavior that kept Apaches from reloading. Apparently, people bit down on the casing to put it out-of-round so that it was useless for reloading. It makes about the best sense from what we saw and for the time period in New Mexico.
I want to thank everyone for the help with this.
--- On Thu, 1/7/10, Allen Dart <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> From: Allen Dart <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: cartridges
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Date: Thursday, January 7, 2010, 9:06 PM
> Dave,
>
> You didn't specify whether the cartridges are spent or
> still fully loaded.
> Do you just have lots of crimped cartridge shells, or are
> they complete
> cartridges with the bullets still in them?
>
> If the bullets are missing, have the cartridges been fired?
> (I.e., do they
> have firing pin indentations?)
>
> If your specimens are crimped shells (sans bullets) but the
> cartridges
> were not fired, Mark Branstner may be on the right track
> with his
> suggestion that somebody was salvaging lead and/or powder
> from a large lot
> of old ammunition. Considering that mining often involves
> blasting,
> salvaging the powder might have been a sound business
> decision, especially
> if the cartridges were purchased at discounted prices for
> obsolete or
> surplus ammunition. If lead was commonly used in mining
> operations and old
> bullets could be smelted and used for new purposes, such a
> purchase of old
> ammo would make even more sense.
>
>
> Allen Dart, RPA, Executive Director
> Old Pueblo Archaeology Center
> PO Box 40577
> Tucson AZ 85717-0577 USA
> 520-798-1201 office, 520-798-1966 fax
> Email: [log in to unmask]
> URL: www.oldpueblo.org
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
> The only thing that I can think that would explain such a
> finding ... is
> somebody salvaging lead and/or powder from a large lot of
> old
> ammunition
>
>
>
>
> >Interesting. I found a few on a site in North
> Carolina that had
> >been punctured with a knife blade. I can't think of any
> obvious
> >explanation for your situation either! I'd love
> to hear if you find
> anything out though.
> >Paul G. Avery, RPA
> >Senior Archaeologist
> >MACTEC Engineering and Consulting
> >9725 Cogdill Road
> >Knoxville, TN 37932
> >Direct: (865) 218-1069
> >Main: (865) 588-8544, Ext. 1169
> >Fax: (865) 588-8026
> >________________________________
> >From: HISTORICAL ARCHAEOLOGY on behalf of David Legare
> >Sent: Thu 1/7/2010 3:45 PM
> >To: [log in to unmask]
> >Subject: Re: cartridges
> >I'm afraid that I don't have any photos. Almost
> all of the hundreds of
> cartridges in virtually every caliber were affected.
> They were all
> subjected to pressure that either put them out of round or
> >flattened them from about 2/3 of the way from the base
> to where the
> bullet would have been seated. There aren't any clear
> tool marks that
> would make me say it was done with pliers. A rock
> would have done as
> easily. There were two exceptions that were one 50
> caliber pistol
> cartridge and all of the very small (less than 1 cm long)
> 22 caliber
> cartridges. We didn't see any in the rest of the
> cartridges on the site
> that hadn't been treated like this.
> >--- On Thu, 1/7/10, Smoke <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> >> From: Smoke <[log in to unmask]>
> >> Subject: Re: cartridges
> >> To: [log in to unmask]
> >> Date: Thursday, January 7, 2010, 1:12 PM
> >> Have a photo or two?
> >> On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 1:52 PM, David Legare
> <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> >> > I have a large number of cartridges at
> a historic mine
> >> site in southern New Mexico. The
> primary occupation of the
> >> site is from around 1903 to 1911.
> These cartridges are of
> >> a very wide variety of calibers. they
> were all
> >> identifiable 30-30, 30-06, 44-70, 45,
> etc. The question
> >> concerns their treatment. Virtually
> every one of them was
> >> found crimped in almost exactly the same
> place on the
> >> cartidge. Anyone have any idea what
> this behavior is?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> --
> >> Smoke Pfeiffer
> >> In my many years I have come to a conclusion
> that one
> >> useless man is a
> >> shame, two is a law firm, and three or more
> is a Congress.
> >> -- John
> >> Adams
> >> Proud member of the Angry Mob!
>
>
> --
>
> Mark C. Branstner, RPA
> Historic Archaeologist
>
> Illinois Transportation
> Archaeological Research Program
> University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
> 209 Nuclear Physics Lab, MC-571
> 23 East Stadium Drive
> Champaign, IL 61820
>
> Phone: 217.244.0892
> Fax: 217.244.7458
> Cell: 517.927.4556
> [log in to unmask]
>
>
> "I hope there's pudding" - Luna Lovegood (HP5)
>
> "If you only have a hammer, every problem looks like a
> nail"- Anonymous
>
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