Ron
Do you think it could be a fake?
Richard
----- Original Message ---------------
Subject: Re: Help with artifact ID; possible association with enslaved African America...
From: Ron May <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 02:04:22 EDT
To: [log in to unmask]
>Bob,
>
>If you look at the small square item presented to us a few days ago, you
>will see the back side has that look of something poured in a mold. I
>actually thought it resembled a tile, so have sent the image off for expert
>opinion. Unfortunately, people are away on vacation this time of year and the
>answer will not come for several weeks. It reminded me of an ingot molding.
>
>Ron May
>Legacy 106, Inc.
>
>
>
>
>In a message dated 6/27/2009 7:41:49 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
>[log in to unmask] writes:
>
>Richard,
>
>There are some similar Indian copper coins (purportedly Mauryan Empire
>punch-mark types ... which would be considerably older, possibly by 5 or 6
>centuries, than the molded type Tim shows ... if, in fact, Tim's is
>actually
>a genuine coin) being offered on eBay here:
>
>http://cgi.ebay.com/India-Bronze-Punchmark-Mauryan-Empire-ancient-coin_W0QQc
>mdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZalgoQ3dSICQ26itsQ3dIQ252BCQ26ituQ3dFICSQ252BUFIQ252BU
>AQ252BIAQ252BUCIQ26otnQ3d14Q26poQ3dLVIQ26psQ3d54QQ_trksidZp3907Q2em263QQcate
>goryZ4737QQitemZ370167825087QQsalenotsupported
>
>The eBay examples also show suspiciously little corrosion ... which would
>jive if: (1) neither Tim's nor these have ever been buried or handled too
>much in the past 2,000+ years (highly unlikely) ... or (2) they have been
>cleaned and polished (possible for the eBay examples, but unlikely for an
>genuine archaeologically recovered specimen) ... OR (3) if they both are
>FAKES !
>
>After looking through about 10,000 images of coins from southern India
>from
>ca. 1500-2,500 years ago, and not finding any examples even remotely like
>that one Tim has, I'm beginning to think maybe Tim's could possibly be a
>spurious hoax (a plant of recent manufacture). As you point-out, there's
>certainly cause enough (by the fact of the absolute dearth of any
>corrosion,
>alone) to be mighty suspicious ... and even more so, if Tim (or another
>archaeologist) didn't actually recover the item, or witness it being
>recovered. I've had experience with some mighty sneaky metal-detectorists,
>before, who enjoyed nothing more than trying to pull the wool over unwary
>archaeologists' eyes.
>
>~ Bob Skiles
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Richard Wright" <[log in to unmask]>
>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 3:46 PM
>Subject: Re: Help with artifact ID; possible association with enslaved
>African Americans in Missouri
>
>
>> It looks too suspiciously unoxidized to have ever been in soil. Was it
>> found buried? If so I'd be cautious.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ---------------
>>
>> Subject: Re: Help with artifact ID; possible association with enslaved
>> African Americans in Missouri
>> From: Bob Skiles <[log in to unmask]>
>> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 20:45:55 -0500
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>
>>>Yes, I agree, Michelle, there is a certain "Indus-seal" feel to the
>>>iconography ( see http://www.harappa.com/indus/37.html
>>>
>>>and here: http://www.harappa.com/indus/25.html )
>>>
>>>I don't recognize the script, but it's definitely post Indus/Harrapan.
>>>
>>>This is a cast copper coin; my guess is southern India. Likely a local
>>>minting of a city- or princely-state.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Michelle Touton" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 6:31 PM
>>>Subject: Re: Help with artifact ID; possible association with enslaved
>>>African Americans in Missouri
>>>
>>>
>>>> It reminds me of wax seals such as those used by the Indus people
>(e.g.,
>>>> http://www.people.vcu.edu/~djbromle/cartoon04/shobha/Seals_SR2.htm;
>see
>>>> especially the second image), but those are usually carved in the
>>>> negative
>>>> to leave a positive impression and your bronze piece looks like a
>>>> positive
>>>> carving. Perhaps folk art, a talisman, or perhaps even a souvenir
>meant
>>>> to imitate an ancient seal? Have you been able to date the layer from
>>>> which the object was found?
>>>>
>>>> Michelle
>>>>
>>>> Missouri Archaeology wrote:
>>>>> See link below for images of the small cast bronze object embossed
>>>>> with unique writing or symbols and a quadruped that looks like a
>rhino
>>>>> or
>>>>> elephant.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/39860575@N03/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 12:20 PM, Missouri Archaeology <
>>>>> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear All,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I need help identifying a small cast bronze object embossed with
>>>>>> unique
>>>>>> writing or symbols and a quadruped that looks like a rhino or
>>>>>> elephant.
>>>>>> This object was found during a metal detection survey of a site
>>>>>> in Boonville, Missouri, which was occupied almost continuously from
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> 1820s through the mid-1990s. An original single-pen log cabin is at
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> center of the present house (and completely visible on the
>interior).
>>>>>> An
>>>>>> early 20th century rear addition and the original outbuildings didn't
>>>>>> survive. Oral information suggests that one of the razed buildings
>was
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> slave quarters and that at least one of the long-time antebellum
>>>>>> occupants
>>>>>> was a slave owner. The piece was found about eight inches below the
>>>>>> surface
>>>>>> on the rear portion of the lot at the spot where the possible
>quarters
>>>>>> stood. If you are interested or think you can help, then send me an
>>>>>> email
>>>>>> and I will forward you some images.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tim
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Timothy E. Baumann, Ph.D. , RPA
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Curator of Collections
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Glenn A. Black Laboratory of Archaeology
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Indiana University
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 423 N. Fess Avenue
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bloomington, IN 47405-7109
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Phone: 812-855-0022
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fax: 812-855-1864
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Email: [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Website: www.gbl.indiana.edu
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>
>
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