I'm surprised to see a rationalization for this illegal behavior from a member of the archaeological community. The problem is huge and I'm glad to see some enforcement actions being taken. Throwing immigration and drug law enforcement into the discussion is a red herring. Those are well-funded operations that get plenty of attention, unlike this slimy business.
-----Original Message-----
From: HISTORICAL ARCHAEOLOGY [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of HISTARCH automatic digest system
Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 1:00 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: HISTARCH Digest - 19 Jun 2009 to 20 Jun 2009 (#2009-142)
There are 9 messages totalling 744 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Indian Artifact Looting Case Unsettles a Utah Town (9)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 22:29:36 +0200
From: geoff carver <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Indian Artifact Looting Case Unsettles a Utah Town
Unforeseen consequences of looting:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/21/us/21blanding.html?_r=1&hp
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 18:08:34 -0400
From: Rich Green <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Indian Artifact Looting Case Unsettles a Utah Town
This is just another case of the U.S. government shooting fish in a barrel.
Law enforcement can't even begin to stop tons of white powder and millions of illegal aliens from entering the country, but they can sure round up, embarrass and treat ordinary citizens like hardened criminals.
This is the same government that doesn't believe in subjecting terrorists to "harsh interrogation", or even calling them terrorists. It's a lot easier to arrest otherwise respectable citizens and leading members of a community for collecting artifacts.
Maybe if they already did their job, and were running out of crimes to prosecute, the Justice Department should go after parties guilty of ongoing looting. But since they do a pretty crappy job, even at arresting legitimate looters too, it seems a bit far fetched to pursue and arrest people with pre-existing collections. What's next?
Rich Green
Historic Archaeological Research
4338 Hadley Court
West Lafayette, IN 47906
Office: (765) 464-8735
Mobile: (765) 427-4082
www.har-indy.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "geoff carver" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 4:29 PM
Subject: Indian Artifact Looting Case Unsettles a Utah Town
> Unforeseen consequences of looting:
> http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/21/us/21blanding.html?_r=1&hp
>
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 17:31:19 -0500
From: Bob Skiles <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Indian Artifact Looting Case Unsettles a Utah Town
Graverobbers are criminals and the lowest form of life (lower than pond =
scum, in my book). The next lowest are the people who buy artifacts from =
graverobbers and display them like trophies in their homes. It's good to =
see that at least one federal prosecutor is finally treating them like =
what they are ... common, lowlife criminals. Upstanding "ordinary" =
citizens (as you aver) don't dig-up and despoil human graves to gather =
trinkets for their collections (and for venal gain) just because it's =
always been done that way (lots of folks' grand-daddies around here usta =
own other people, but we all know that's wrong, now).
I was just reading over a contemporary account of the Great Hurricane =
that wiped-out Galveston in 1900 ... the U.S. Army and National =
Guardsmen who were called in to assist with rescue (and to prevent =
looting after the disaster) had orders to shoot-on-sight anyone found =
robbing the bodies of the thousands of victims that washed-up on the =
beaches ... and they din't hesitate carrying out those orders!
How is what this cabal of ghouls in Utah doing any different than =
stealing from the dead in Galveston 110-years-ago? I think it's worse =
because we are ostensibly more civilized, less racially prejudiced ... =
and we're supposed to know better!=20
Perhaps it would be a more effective deterrent to post snipers guarding =
the native cemeteries and provide everyone who shows-up with a shovel =
and starts digging some summary Texian justice?
Bob Skiles
----- Original Message -----=20
From: "Rich Green" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 5:08 PM
Subject: Re: Indian Artifact Looting Case Unsettles a Utah Town
> This is just another case of the U.S. government shooting fish in a =
barrel.=20
> Law enforcement can't even begin to stop tons of white powder and =
millions=20
> of illegal aliens from entering the country, but they can sure round =
up,=20
> embarrass and treat ordinary citizens like hardened criminals.
>=20
> This is the same government that doesn't believe in subjecting =
terrorists to=20
> "harsh interrogation", or even calling them terrorists. It's a lot =
easier=20
> to arrest otherwise respectable citizens and leading members of a =
community=20
> for collecting artifacts.
>=20
> Maybe if they already did their job, and were running out of crimes to =
> prosecute, the Justice Department should go after parties guilty of =
ongoing=20
> looting. But since they do a pretty crappy job, even at arresting=20
> legitimate looters too, it seems a bit far fetched to pursue and =
arrest=20
> people with pre-existing collections. What's next?
>=20
> Rich Green
> Historic Archaeological Research
> 4338 Hadley Court
> West Lafayette, IN 47906
> Office: (765) 464-8735
> Mobile: (765) 427-4082
> www.har-indy.com
>=20
> ----- Original Message -----=20
> From: "geoff carver" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 4:29 PM
> Subject: Indian Artifact Looting Case Unsettles a Utah Town
>=20
>=20
>> Unforeseen consequences of looting:
>> http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/21/us/21blanding.html?_r=3D1&hp
>>
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 21:52:18 -0400
From: Rich Green <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Indian Artifact Looting Case Unsettles a Utah Town
There are plenty of folks who puff up and let everyone know just how
abhorrent looting is, and I'm sure it will occur again in this thread;
however, in the context of criminal prosecution, owning a 30 year old
collection of anything doesn't seem that important to me.
Incidentally, Texan justice works for me. Just curious though, in your
opinion would this include all who show up with shovels to despoil human
graves?
I'm with you Bob. Let's get some armed Texans on that border down there, and
put some of that Texan justice on the dope smugglers while we're at. Hell,
let's enlist some of those same boys to track down the thousands of serial
pedophiles and murderers in this country. Surely, this vastly more
prevalent criminal behavior should make our hit parade? Come to think of
it, why don't we let the Texans take care of the Gitmo problem?
There are plenty of crimes underway in Utah far worse than collecting and or
owning artifacts. It is ludicrous to suggest that this should even show up
on the radar of a responsible Justice Department that understands its
priorities and is doing its job. Surely you would agree that there are more
urgent criminal matters on their plate that they're pushing aside? No, this
is just headline grabbing publicity that this Utah office and prosecutor are
after. This prosecution really only generates the kind of noise that
pleases the few people who rank artifact collecting among the worst crimes.
According to the article, there are more people against this than for it.
In the end, a prosecution like this one supplants the real work that this
prosecutor should be doing.
I'm not a collector, and I don't particularly care for them as a whole.
Agreed, the hobby of collecting attracts all kinds including bad elements
and criminals. But, I'd sure rather see my government try to put an end to,
or even a dent in, some of the more pressing problems of society. And
again, there is plenty of work right there in Utah that is being bypassed
for this bullshit.
Whenever collecting is discussed on a list like this one, the talk always
turns to grave robbing and looting as if this is the sum of all collecting.
Truth is, looters are a relatively small element of the collecting
community. Let's not forget that people collect all sorts of things; some
of which aren't even currently considered artifacts. These collectors in
Utah didn't expect that their hobby of collecting would someday become
socially unacceptable when they began it three decades ago, and maybe this
doesn't excuse them, but they aren't all pond scum either.
Regards,
Rich Green
Historic Archaeological Research
4338 Hadley Court
West Lafayette, IN 47906
Office: (765) 464-8735
Mobile: (765) 427-4082
www.har-indy.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Skiles" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 6:31 PM
Subject: Re: Indian Artifact Looting Case Unsettles a Utah Town
Graverobbers are criminals and the lowest form of life (lower than pond
scum, in my book). The next lowest are the people who buy artifacts from
graverobbers and display them like trophies in their homes. It's good to see
that at least one federal prosecutor is finally treating them like what they
are ... common, lowlife criminals. Upstanding "ordinary" citizens (as you
aver) don't dig-up and despoil human graves to gather trinkets for their
collections (and for venal gain) just because it's always been done that way
(lots of folks' grand-daddies around here usta own other people, but we all
know that's wrong, now).
I was just reading over a contemporary account of the Great Hurricane that
wiped-out Galveston in 1900 ... the U.S. Army and National Guardsmen who
were called in to assist with rescue (and to prevent looting after the
disaster) had orders to shoot-on-sight anyone found robbing the bodies of
the thousands of victims that washed-up on the beaches ... and they din't
hesitate carrying out those orders!
How is what this cabal of ghouls in Utah doing any different than stealing
from the dead in Galveston 110-years-ago? I think it's worse because we are
ostensibly more civilized, less racially prejudiced ... and we're supposed
to know better!
Perhaps it would be a more effective deterrent to post snipers guarding the
native cemeteries and provide everyone who shows-up with a shovel and starts
digging some summary Texian justice?
Bob Skiles
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Green" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 5:08 PM
Subject: Re: Indian Artifact Looting Case Unsettles a Utah Town
> This is just another case of the U.S. government shooting fish in a
> barrel.
> Law enforcement can't even begin to stop tons of white powder and millions
> of illegal aliens from entering the country, but they can sure round up,
> embarrass and treat ordinary citizens like hardened criminals.
>
> This is the same government that doesn't believe in subjecting terrorists
> to
> "harsh interrogation", or even calling them terrorists. It's a lot easier
> to arrest otherwise respectable citizens and leading members of a
> community
> for collecting artifacts.
>
> Maybe if they already did their job, and were running out of crimes to
> prosecute, the Justice Department should go after parties guilty of
> ongoing
> looting. But since they do a pretty crappy job, even at arresting
> legitimate looters too, it seems a bit far fetched to pursue and arrest
> people with pre-existing collections. What's next?
>
> Rich Green
> Historic Archaeological Research
> 4338 Hadley Court
> West Lafayette, IN 47906
> Office: (765) 464-8735
> Mobile: (765) 427-4082
> www.har-indy.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "geoff carver" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 4:29 PM
> Subject: Indian Artifact Looting Case Unsettles a Utah Town
>
>
>> Unforeseen consequences of looting:
>> http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/21/us/21blanding.html?_r=1&hp
>>
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 22:28:50 -0400
From: Megan Springate <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Indian Artifact Looting Case Unsettles a Utah Town
An earlier story on this indicates that the looting was done on Federal
land, and that at least two of the defendants were previously charged with
desecrating Anasazi graves. That's fair warning to cut it out, if you ask
me. The sellers were also obviously aware that what they were doing was
illegal, as they falsified provenience information to correspond with
private land, rather than the public lands they indicated they looted the
artifacts from (see search warrant text).
Story here; http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=6771105&pid=0
Search Warrant here: http://media.bonnint.net/slc/1196/119673/11967340.pdf
Regardless of how anyone feels about collectors, what they did violated
the law, and they knew it. They also weren't in it for the joy of
collecting, but for the bucks (storage areas full of artifacts? Hundreds
of thousands of dollars made through sales just to one person?).
There is apparently a trend afoot that links looting with drugs; there's a
slim connection with the current case indicated in the story below, but
there is a reference to a BLM 2008 report that it is a growing problem.
News story here; see also the "timeline" links to the current case on the
right:
http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_12596071
Link between looting and Meth from Archaeology:
http://www.archaeology.org/0903/etc/drugs.html
--Megan Springate.
> There are plenty of folks who puff up and let everyone know just how
> abhorrent looting is, and I'm sure it will occur again in this thread;
> however, in the context of criminal prosecution, owning a 30 year old
> collection of anything doesn't seem that important to me.
>
> Incidentally, Texan justice works for me. Just curious though, in your
> opinion would this include all who show up with shovels to despoil human
> graves?
>
> I'm with you Bob. Let's get some armed Texans on that border down there,
> and
> put some of that Texan justice on the dope smugglers while we're at.
> Hell,
> let's enlist some of those same boys to track down the thousands of serial
> pedophiles and murderers in this country. Surely, this vastly more
> prevalent criminal behavior should make our hit parade? Come to think of
> it, why don't we let the Texans take care of the Gitmo problem?
>
> There are plenty of crimes underway in Utah far worse than collecting and
> or
> owning artifacts. It is ludicrous to suggest that this should even show
> up
> on the radar of a responsible Justice Department that understands its
> priorities and is doing its job. Surely you would agree that there are
> more
> urgent criminal matters on their plate that they're pushing aside? No,
> this
> is just headline grabbing publicity that this Utah office and prosecutor
> are
> after. This prosecution really only generates the kind of noise that
> pleases the few people who rank artifact collecting among the worst
> crimes.
> According to the article, there are more people against this than for it.
> In the end, a prosecution like this one supplants the real work that this
> prosecutor should be doing.
>
> I'm not a collector, and I don't particularly care for them as a whole.
> Agreed, the hobby of collecting attracts all kinds including bad elements
> and criminals. But, I'd sure rather see my government try to put an end
> to,
> or even a dent in, some of the more pressing problems of society. And
> again, there is plenty of work right there in Utah that is being bypassed
> for this bullshit.
>
> Whenever collecting is discussed on a list like this one, the talk always
> turns to grave robbing and looting as if this is the sum of all
> collecting.
> Truth is, looters are a relatively small element of the collecting
> community. Let's not forget that people collect all sorts of things; some
> of which aren't even currently considered artifacts. These collectors in
> Utah didn't expect that their hobby of collecting would someday become
> socially unacceptable when they began it three decades ago, and maybe this
> doesn't excuse them, but they aren't all pond scum either.
>
> Regards,
>
> Rich Green
> Historic Archaeological Research
> 4338 Hadley Court
> West Lafayette, IN 47906
> Office: (765) 464-8735
> Mobile: (765) 427-4082
> www.har-indy.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob Skiles" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 6:31 PM
> Subject: Re: Indian Artifact Looting Case Unsettles a Utah Town
>
>
> Graverobbers are criminals and the lowest form of life (lower than pond
> scum, in my book). The next lowest are the people who buy artifacts from
> graverobbers and display them like trophies in their homes. It's good to
> see
> that at least one federal prosecutor is finally treating them like what
> they
> are ... common, lowlife criminals. Upstanding "ordinary" citizens (as you
> aver) don't dig-up and despoil human graves to gather trinkets for their
> collections (and for venal gain) just because it's always been done that
> way
> (lots of folks' grand-daddies around here usta own other people, but we
> all
> know that's wrong, now).
>
> I was just reading over a contemporary account of the Great Hurricane that
> wiped-out Galveston in 1900 ... the U.S. Army and National Guardsmen who
> were called in to assist with rescue (and to prevent looting after the
> disaster) had orders to shoot-on-sight anyone found robbing the bodies of
> the thousands of victims that washed-up on the beaches ... and they din't
> hesitate carrying out those orders!
>
> How is what this cabal of ghouls in Utah doing any different than stealing
> from the dead in Galveston 110-years-ago? I think it's worse because we
> are
> ostensibly more civilized, less racially prejudiced ... and we're supposed
> to know better!
>
> Perhaps it would be a more effective deterrent to post snipers guarding
> the
> native cemeteries and provide everyone who shows-up with a shovel and
> starts
> digging some summary Texian justice?
>
> Bob Skiles
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rich Green" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 5:08 PM
> Subject: Re: Indian Artifact Looting Case Unsettles a Utah Town
>
>
>> This is just another case of the U.S. government shooting fish in a
>> barrel.
>> Law enforcement can't even begin to stop tons of white powder and
>> millions
>> of illegal aliens from entering the country, but they can sure round up,
>> embarrass and treat ordinary citizens like hardened criminals.
>>
>> This is the same government that doesn't believe in subjecting
>> terrorists
>> to
>> "harsh interrogation", or even calling them terrorists. It's a lot
>> easier
>> to arrest otherwise respectable citizens and leading members of a
>> community
>> for collecting artifacts.
>>
>> Maybe if they already did their job, and were running out of crimes to
>> prosecute, the Justice Department should go after parties guilty of
>> ongoing
>> looting. But since they do a pretty crappy job, even at arresting
>> legitimate looters too, it seems a bit far fetched to pursue and arrest
>> people with pre-existing collections. What's next?
>>
>> Rich Green
>> Historic Archaeological Research
>> 4338 Hadley Court
>> West Lafayette, IN 47906
>> Office: (765) 464-8735
>> Mobile: (765) 427-4082
>> www.har-indy.com
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "geoff carver" <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 4:29 PM
>> Subject: Indian Artifact Looting Case Unsettles a Utah Town
>>
>>
>>> Unforeseen consequences of looting:
>>> http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/21/us/21blanding.html?_r=1&hp
>>>
>
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 23:19:12 EDT
From: Ron May <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Indian Artifact Looting Case Unsettles a Utah Town
I do not subscribe to the New York Times. What did it say?
Ron May
Legacy 106, Inc.
In a message dated 6/20/2009 1:32:25 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
Unforeseen consequences of looting:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/21/us/21blanding.html?_r=1&hp
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
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JunestepsfooterNO62)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 20:29:33 -0700
From: Gwyn Alcock <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Indian Artifact Looting Case Unsettles a Utah Town
This was not an isolated case of a couple of people in the wrong place at t=
he wrong time, indulging in an innocent hobby.=0ASome were multiple offende=
rs, who had been doing it for decades for money.=0AHere's the original NYTi=
mes article about the case:=0Ahttp://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/11/us/11utah.h=
tml?_r=3D1&scp=3D1&sq=3Dblanding,%20utah&st=3Dcse=0A=0A"Over 18 months, fro=
m early 2007 through last November, the former=0Adealer =E2=80=94 who was w=
ired for real-time audio/video transmission to F.B.I.=0Aagents =E2=80=94 bo=
ught about 256 artifacts from the defendants, according to=0Athe F.B.I. aff=
idavit, valued at almost $336,000.=0A" ... the=0Aindicted defendants appare=
ntly incriminated themselves by pointing or=0Acircling on the map where thi=
ngs came from, before signing a so-called=0Aletter of provenance, indicatin=
g a phony legal location" =0AIf you don't like the handcuffs, don't pull th=
e felony.=0A=0A=0AHow often does the government bring ARPA cases?=0ANot oft=
en. =0A=0AIt's more than time that the government pursued such actions, whi=
ch have been illegal for over a century.=0A=0AGwyn Alcock=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A___=
_____________________________=0AFrom: Megan Springate <arch@DIGITALPRESENCE=
.COM>=0ATo: [log in to unmask]: Saturday, June 20, 2009 7:28:50 PM=0AS=
ubject: Re: Indian Artifact Looting Case Unsettles a Utah Town=0A=0AAn earl=
ier story on this indicates that the looting was done on Federal=0Aland, an=
d that at least two of the defendants were previously charged with=0Adesecr=
ating Anasazi graves. That's fair warning to cut it out, if you ask=0Ame. T=
he sellers were also obviously aware that what they were doing was=0Aillega=
l, as they falsified provenience information to correspond with=0Aprivate l=
and, rather than the public lands they indicated they looted the=0Aartifact=
s from (see search warrant text).=0A=0AStory here; http://www.ksl.com/?nid=
=3D148&sid=3D6771105&pid=3D0=0ASearch Warrant here: http://media.bonnint.ne=
t/slc/1196/119673/11967340.pdf=0A=0ARegardless of how anyone feels about co=
llectors, what they did violated=0Athe law, and they knew it. They also wer=
en't in it for the joy of=0Acollecting, but for the bucks (storage areas fu=
ll of artifacts? Hundreds=0Aof thousands of dollars made through sales just=
to one person?).=0A=0AThere is apparently a trend afoot that links looting=
with drugs; there's a=0Aslim connection with the current case indicated in=
the story below, but=0Athere is a reference to a BLM 2008 report that it i=
s a growing problem.=0A=0ANews story here; see also the "timeline" links to=
the current case on the=0Aright:=0Ahttp://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_12596071=
=0A=0ALink between looting and Meth from Archaeology:=0Ahttp://www.archaeol=
ogy.org/0903/etc/drugs.html=0A=0A=0A--Megan Springate.=0A=0A> There are ple=
nty of folks who puff up and let everyone know just how=0A> abhorrent looti=
ng is, and I'm sure it will occur again in this thread;=0A> however, in the=
context of criminal prosecution, owning a 30 year old=0A> collection of an=
ything doesn't seem that important to me.=0A>=0A> Incidentally, Texan justi=
ce works for me. Just curious though, in your=0A> opinion would this inclu=
de all who show up with shovels to despoil human=0A> graves?=0A>=0A> I'm wi=
th you Bob. Let's get some armed Texans on that border down there,=0A> and=
=0A> put some of that Texan justice on the dope smugglers while we're at.=
=0A> Hell,=0A> let's enlist some of those same boys to track down the thous=
ands of serial=0A> pedophiles and murderers in this country. Surely, this =
vastly more=0A> prevalent criminal behavior should make our hit parade? Co=
me to think of=0A> it, why don't we let the Texans take care of the Gitmo p=
roblem?=0A>=0A> There are plenty of crimes underway in Utah far worse than =
collecting and=0A> or=0A> owning artifacts. It is ludicrous to suggest tha=
t this should even show=0A> up=0A> on the radar of a responsible Justice De=
partment that understands its=0A> priorities and is doing its job. Surely =
you would agree that there are=0A> more=0A> urgent criminal matters on thei=
r plate that they're pushing aside? No,=0A> this=0A> is just headline grab=
bing publicity that this Utah office and prosecutor=0A> are=0A> after. Thi=
s prosecution really only generates the kind of noise that=0A> pleases the =
few people who rank artifact collecting among the worst=0A> crimes.=0A> Acc=
ording to the article, there are more people against this than for it.=0A> =
In the end, a prosecution like this one supplants the real work that this=
=0A> prosecutor should be doing.=0A>=0A> I'm not a collector, and I don't p=
articularly care for them as a whole.=0A> Agreed, the hobby of collecting a=
ttracts all kinds including bad elements=0A> and criminals. But, I'd sure =
rather see my government try to put an end=0A> to,=0A> or even a dent in, s=
ome of the more pressing problems of society. And=0A> again, there is plen=
ty of work right there in Utah that is being bypassed=0A> for this bullshit=
.=0A>=0A> Whenever collecting is discussed on a list like this one, the tal=
k always=0A> turns to grave robbing and looting as if this is the sum of al=
l=0A> collecting.=0A> Truth is, looters are a relatively small element of t=
he collecting=0A> community. Let's not forget that people collect all sort=
s of things; some=0A> of which aren't even currently considered artifacts. =
These collectors in=0A> Utah didn't expect that their hobby of collecting =
would someday become=0A> socially unacceptable when they began it three dec=
ades ago, and maybe this=0A> doesn't excuse them, but they aren't all pond =
scum either.=0A>=0A> Regards,=0A>=0A> Rich Green=0A> Historic Archaeologica=
l Research=0A> 4338 Hadley Court=0A> West Lafayette, IN 47906=0A> Office: =
(765) 464-8735=0A> Mobile: (765) 427-4082=0A> www.har-indy.com=0A>=0A> ----=
- Original Message -----=0A> From: "Bob Skiles" <[log in to unmask]>=0A=
> To: <[log in to unmask]>=0A> Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 6:31 PM=0A> Subj=
ect: Re: Indian Artifact Looting Case Unsettles a Utah Town=0A>=0A>=0A> Gra=
verobbers are criminals and the lowest form of life (lower than pond=0A> sc=
um, in my book). The next lowest are the people who buy artifacts from=0A> =
graverobbers and display them like trophies in their homes. It's good to=0A=
> see=0A> that at least one federal prosecutor is finally treating them lik=
e what=0A> they=0A> are ... common, lowlife criminals. Upstanding "ordinary=
" citizens (as you=0A> aver) don't dig-up and despoil human graves to gathe=
r trinkets for their=0A> collections (and for venal gain) just because it's=
always been done that=0A> way=0A> (lots of folks' grand-daddies around her=
e usta own other people, but we=0A> all=0A> know that's wrong, now).=0A>=0A=
> I was just reading over a contemporary account of the Great Hurricane tha=
t=0A> wiped-out Galveston in 1900 ... the U.S. Army and National Guardsmen =
who=0A> were called in to assist with rescue (and to prevent looting after =
the=0A> disaster) had orders to shoot-on-sight anyone found robbing the bod=
ies of=0A> the thousands of victims that washed-up on the beaches ... and t=
hey din't=0A> hesitate carrying out those orders!=0A>=0A> How is what this =
cabal of ghouls in Utah doing any different than stealing=0A> from the dead=
in Galveston 110-years-ago? I think it's worse because we=0A> are=0A> oste=
nsibly more civilized, less racially prejudiced ... and we're supposed=0A> =
to know better!=0A>=0A> Perhaps it would be a more effective deterrent to p=
ost snipers guarding=0A> the=0A> native cemeteries and provide everyone who=
shows-up with a shovel and=0A> starts=0A> digging some summary Texian just=
ice?=0A>=0A> Bob Skiles=0A>=0A>=0A> ----- Original Message -----=0A> From: =
"Rich Green" <[log in to unmask]>=0A> To: <[log in to unmask]>=0A> Sent: S=
aturday, June 20, 2009 5:08 PM=0A> Subject: Re: Indian Artifact Looting Cas=
e Unsettles a Utah Town=0A>=0A>=0A>> This is just another case of the U.S. =
government shooting fish in a=0A>> barrel.=0A>> Law enforcement can't even =
begin to stop tons of white powder and=0A>> millions=0A>> of illegal aliens=
from entering the country, but they can sure round up,=0A>> embarrass and =
treat ordinary citizens like hardened criminals.=0A>>=0A>> This is the same=
government that doesn't believe in subjecting=0A>> terrorists=0A>> to=0A>>=
"harsh interrogation", or even calling them terrorists. It's a lot=0A>> e=
asier=0A>> to arrest otherwise respectable citizens and leading members of =
a=0A>> community=0A>> for collecting artifacts.=0A>>=0A>> Maybe if they alr=
eady did their job, and were running out of crimes to=0A>> prosecute, the J=
ustice Department should go after parties guilty of=0A>> ongoing=0A>> looti=
ng. But since they do a pretty crappy job, even at arresting=0A>> legitima=
te looters too, it seems a bit far fetched to pursue and arrest=0A>> people=
with pre-existing collections. What's next?=0A>>=0A>> Rich Green=0A>> His=
toric Archaeological Research=0A>> 4338 Hadley Court=0A>> West Lafayette, I=
N 47906=0A>> Office: (765) 464-8735=0A>> Mobile: (765) 427-4082=0A>> www.h=
ar-indy.com=0A>>=0A>> ----- Original Message -----=0A>> From: "geoff carver=
" <[log in to unmask]>=0A>> To: <[log in to unmask]>=0A>> Sent: Saturday, J=
une 20, 2009 4:29 PM=0A>> Subject: Indian Artifact Looting Case Unsettles a=
Utah Town=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>> Unforeseen consequences of looting:=0A>>> http:/=
/www.nytimes.com/2009/06/21/us/21blanding.html?_r=3D1&hp=0A>>>=0A>=0A
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 20:30:14 -0700
From: Gwyn Alcock <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Indian Artifact Looting Case Unsettles a Utah Town
Registration is free to the NY Times. You don't have to have a paid subscription.
________________________________
From: Ron May <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 8:19:12 PM
Subject: Re: Indian Artifact Looting Case Unsettles a Utah Town
I do not subscribe to the New York Times. What did it say?
Ron May
Legacy 106, Inc.
In a message dated 6/20/2009 1:32:25 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
Unforeseen consequences of looting:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/21/us/21blanding.html?_r=1&hp
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps!
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JunestepsfooterNO62)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 02:14:06 -0400
From: jakob crockett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Indian Artifact Looting Case Unsettles a Utah Town
Here's a follow-up article from the Salt Lake Tribune (somewhat local
coverage).
"Another suicide in American Indian artifacts looting case"
http://www.sltrib.com/ci_12643036?source=email
---
Jakob Crockett
Department of Anthropology
University of South Carolina
Hamilton College, Room 317
Columbia, SC 29208
http://mannsimons.freehostia.com
On Sat, Jun 20, 2009 at 11:30 PM, Gwyn Alcock<[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Registration is free to the NY Times. You don't have to have a paid subscription.
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Ron May <[log in to unmask]>
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 8:19:12 PM
> Subject: Re: Indian Artifact Looting Case Unsettles a Utah Town
>
> I do not subscribe to the New York Times. What did it say?
>
> Ron May
> Legacy 106, Inc.
>
>
> In a message dated 6/20/2009 1:32:25 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> [log in to unmask] writes:
>
> Unforeseen consequences of looting:
> http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/21/us/21blanding.html?_r=1&hp
>
>
> **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
> steps!
> (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222585064x1201462784/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=
> JunestepsfooterNO62)
>
------------------------------
End of HISTARCH Digest - 19 Jun 2009 to 20 Jun 2009 (#2009-142)
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