As Baretta said, "If you don't have the time, don't do the crime."
Ron May
In a message dated 6/20/2009 8:30:13 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
This was not an isolated case of a couple of people in the wrong place at
the wrong time, indulging in an innocent hobby.
Some were multiple offenders, who had been doing it for decades for money.
Here's the original NYTimes article about the case:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/11/us/11utah.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=blanding,%20u
tah&st=cse
"Over 18 months, from early 2007 through last November, the former
dealer — who was wired for real-time audio/video transmission to F.B.I.
agents — bought about 256 artifacts from the defendants, according to
the F.B.I. affidavit, valued at almost $336,000.
" ... the
indicted defendants apparently incriminated themselves by pointing or
circling on the map where things came from, before signing a so-called
letter of provenance, indicating a phony legal location"
If you don't like the handcuffs, don't pull the felony.
How often does the government bring ARPA cases?
Not often.
It's more than time that the government pursued such actions, which have
been illegal for over a century.
Gwyn Alcock
________________________________
From: Megan Springate <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 7:28:50 PM
Subject: Re: Indian Artifact Looting Case Unsettles a Utah Town
An earlier story on this indicates that the looting was done on Federal
land, and that at least two of the defendants were previously charged with
desecrating Anasazi graves. That's fair warning to cut it out, if you ask
me. The sellers were also obviously aware that what they were doing was
illegal, as they falsified provenience information to correspond with
private land, rather than the public lands they indicated they looted the
artifacts from (see search warrant text).
Story here; http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=6771105&pid=0
Search Warrant here: http://media.bonnint.net/slc/1196/119673/11967340.pdf
Regardless of how anyone feels about collectors, what they did violated
the law, and they knew it. They also weren't in it for the joy of
collecting, but for the bucks (storage areas full of artifacts? Hundreds
of thousands of dollars made through sales just to one person?).
There is apparently a trend afoot that links looting with drugs; there's a
slim connection with the current case indicated in the story below, but
there is a reference to a BLM 2008 report that it is a growing problem.
News story here; see also the "timeline" links to the current case on the
right:
http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_12596071
Link between looting and Meth from Archaeology:
http://www.archaeology.org/0903/etc/drugs.html
--Megan Springate.
> There are plenty of folks who puff up and let everyone know just how
> abhorrent looting is, and I'm sure it will occur again in this thread;
> however, in the context of criminal prosecution, owning a 30 year old
> collection of anything doesn't seem that important to me.
>
> Incidentally, Texan justice works for me. Just curious though, in your
> opinion would this include all who show up with shovels to despoil human
> graves?
>
> I'm with you Bob. Let's get some armed Texans on that border down there,
> and
> put some of that Texan justice on the dope smugglers while we're at.
> Hell,
> let's enlist some of those same boys to track down the thousands of
serial
> pedophiles and murderers in this country. Surely, this vastly more
> prevalent criminal behavior should make our hit parade? Come to think of
> it, why don't we let the Texans take care of the Gitmo problem?
>
> There are plenty of crimes underway in Utah far worse than collecting and
> or
> owning artifacts. It is ludicrous to suggest that this should even show
> up
> on the radar of a responsible Justice Department that understands its
> priorities and is doing its job. Surely you would agree that there are
> more
> urgent criminal matters on their plate that they're pushing aside? No,
> this
> is just headline grabbing publicity that this Utah office and prosecutor
> are
> after. This prosecution really only generates the kind of noise that
> pleases the few people who rank artifact collecting among the worst
> crimes.
> According to the article, there are more people against this than for it.
> In the end, a prosecution like this one supplants the real work that this
> prosecutor should be doing.
>
> I'm not a collector, and I don't particularly care for them as a whole.
> Agreed, the hobby of collecting attracts all kinds including bad elements
> and criminals. But, I'd sure rather see my government try to put an end
> to,
> or even a dent in, some of the more pressing problems of society. And
> again, there is plenty of work right there in Utah that is being bypassed
> for this bullshit.
>
> Whenever collecting is discussed on a list like this one, the talk always
> turns to grave robbing and looting as if this is the sum of all
> collecting.
> Truth is, looters are a relatively small element of the collecting
> community. Let's not forget that people collect all sorts of things;
some
> of which aren't even currently considered artifacts. These collectors in
> Utah didn't expect that their hobby of collecting would someday become
> socially unacceptable when they began it three decades ago, and maybe
this
> doesn't excuse them, but they aren't all pond scum either.
>
> Regards,
>
> Rich Green
> Historic Archaeological Research
> 4338 Hadley Court
> West Lafayette, IN 47906
> Office: (765) 464-8735
> Mobile: (765) 427-4082
> www.har-indy.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob Skiles" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 6:31 PM
> Subject: Re: Indian Artifact Looting Case Unsettles a Utah Town
>
>
> Graverobbers are criminals and the lowest form of life (lower than pond
> scum, in my book). The next lowest are the people who buy artifacts from
> graverobbers and display them like trophies in their homes. It's good to
> see
> that at least one federal prosecutor is finally treating them like what
> they
> are ... common, lowlife criminals. Upstanding "ordinary" citizens (as you
> aver) don't dig-up and despoil human graves to gather trinkets for their
> collections (and for venal gain) just because it's always been done that
> way
> (lots of folks' grand-daddies around here usta own other people, but we
> all
> know that's wrong, now).
>
> I was just reading over a contemporary account of the Great Hurricane
that
> wiped-out Galveston in 1900 ... the U.S. Army and National Guardsmen who
> were called in to assist with rescue (and to prevent looting after the
> disaster) had orders to shoot-on-sight anyone found robbing the bodies of
> the thousands of victims that washed-up on the beaches ... and they din't
> hesitate carrying out those orders!
>
> How is what this cabal of ghouls in Utah doing any different than
stealing
> from the dead in Galveston 110-years-ago? I think it's worse because we
> are
> ostensibly more civilized, less racially prejudiced ... and we're
supposed
> to know better!
>
> Perhaps it would be a more effective deterrent to post snipers guarding
> the
> native cemeteries and provide everyone who shows-up with a shovel and
> starts
> digging some summary Texian justice?
>
> Bob Skiles
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rich Green" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 5:08 PM
> Subject: Re: Indian Artifact Looting Case Unsettles a Utah Town
>
>
>> This is just another case of the U.S. government shooting fish in a
>> barrel.
>> Law enforcement can't even begin to stop tons of white powder and
>> millions
>> of illegal aliens from entering the country, but they can sure round up,
>> embarrass and treat ordinary citizens like hardened criminals.
>>
>> This is the same government that doesn't believe in subjecting
>> terrorists
>> to
>> "harsh interrogation", or even calling them terrorists. It's a lot
>> easier
>> to arrest otherwise respectable citizens and leading members of a
>> community
>> for collecting artifacts.
>>
>> Maybe if they already did their job, and were running out of crimes to
>> prosecute, the Justice Department should go after parties guilty of
>> ongoing
>> looting. But since they do a pretty crappy job, even at arresting
>> legitimate looters too, it seems a bit far fetched to pursue and arrest
>> people with pre-existing collections. What's next?
>>
>> Rich Green
>> Historic Archaeological Research
>> 4338 Hadley Court
>> West Lafayette, IN 47906
>> Office: (765) 464-8735
>> Mobile: (765) 427-4082
>> www.har-indy.com
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "geoff carver" <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 4:29 PM
>> Subject: Indian Artifact Looting Case Unsettles a Utah Town
>>
>>
>>> Unforeseen consequences of looting:
>>> http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/21/us/21blanding.html?_r=1&hp
>>>
>
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