I do not know if I ever told this tale to HISTARCH, but back in the 1950s a
friend and I collected .30-06 bullet shells from U.S. Army, Camp Callan and
hauled them out to a vacant field in Point Loma, San Diego, California. We
crimped the opening of the shells over a tad, filled the shell with black
powder, screwed on a glow plug, connected copper wires, buried the shell in a "fox
hole" then ran 100-feet of wire to my friend's backyard and hooked it up to
his Lionel Train transformer. Once safely inside his garage, we experimented
with electricity and blew up half the vacant lot. I figure that pastime is just
as safe as Bob Skiles pounding live bullets with a hunting knife.
Ron May
Legacy 106, Inc.
In a message dated 2/11/2009 4:01:41 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
Mark,
The early .22-cal rifles, pistols and derringers were only made with a
chamber long enough for shorts (because in those days, shorts were all that
existed). Splitting arose later (after about 1878) when the long/long-rifle
was invented (and rifle manufacturers started manufacturing rifles with
multi-use chambers long enough to accept the longer cartridges ... all the
cheap .22-cal rifles available in our neck-of-the-woods were marked "S, L &
LR" on the barrels by the time I started shooting them in the 1950s).
The problem with splitting is simple to usnderstand. When shooting shorts in
a multi-use rifle, a portion of the chamber is not occupied by the
cartridge, so gunpowder residues build up on its surface, the portion
between the end of the short slug and the beginning of the barrel rifling..
Then when you later jam a long or LR into the chamber, the chamber's
diameter has been decreased by the coating of residues from shooting shorts,
essentially swages the end of the longer cartridge. This swaging and rapid
expansion upon firing weakens the thin brass (already weakened by the
crimping process during manufacturing) and causes the splitting. The swaging
of the cartridge against this gummy/resinous high-friction inducing residue
also accounts for most of the jammed cartridges that we have all had to
dig-out with our penknives.
I have an early S&W .22-cal derringer (made sometime after/near the end of
the Civil War) that has had hundreds of rounds fired through its stubby
barrel since I acquired it decades ago (and doubtlessly was well-used before
I got it), and never a single jammed cartridge. Of course, it will only
accept a short.
Bob Skiles
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Branstner" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 04:50
Subject: Re: Cartridge Case Question
> Bill,
>
> I am in general agreement with your logic about the split casings ...
>
> My father always told that one of the problems with shooting lots of
> SHORTS in old rifles was that you ended up with an eroded firing chamber
> and that subsequent use of LONGS or LONG RIFLE cartridges would result in
> problems such as overly expanded or even split cartridges as a result of
> the expanded firing chamber. I am extrapolating a little here, but bear
> with me ...
>
> However, if Paul were recovering both SHORTS and LONGS with split casings,
> which seems to be what he is saying, that argument would appear moot.
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>>Like Paul and others, I agree that the creation of such a "cut" while
>>removing a casing with a knife is highly unlikely; I suspect it is
>>impossible. I, too, have removed stuck casings with a pocket or hunting
>>knife (whichever was handy), and I have never seen a pierced casing
>>because of it. In any even, the knife scars were at the base of the
>>shell, just above the rim.
>>
>>These .22 bullets were made from relatively soft lead, and pulling the
>>bullet from the cartridge case was a very simple operation with a pair of
>>pliers, holding the shell end between the thumb and index finger. There
>>was no danger of an accidental discharge because the fingers were simply
>>not hard enough to cause one. The bullet popped out quite easily. As an
>>11-18 year-old boy, I popped at least dozens of .22 bullets out of casings
>>that way. Not a single on split, and I never would have tried a knife.
>>
>>Could the "knife cut" have been just a split in the cartridge head? A
>>single defective chamber in a single-action revolver, for example, would
>>split the cartridge at the head, yet the ejection mechanism (forcing a
>>steel rod in a housing beside the barrel down into the cylinder to push
>>the fired shell out the back) would leave no external mark on the expended
>>case.
>>
>>Bill
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Bill Lockhart
>>Associate Professor of Sociology
>>New Mexico State University
>>Alamogordo, NM
>>(575) 439-3732
>>
>>
>>>>> "Avery, Paul" <[log in to unmask]> 2/11/2009 5:07 am >>>
>>Hello all,
>>
>>We did some work recently at an 1830s plantation house in North
>>Carolina. We recovered a fairly large number of cartridge cases from
>>what appears to be an early 20th century deposit. It was located just
>>off of the front porch, so it looks like they were sitting on the porch
>>and plinking. There were some unusual calibers, including several .32
>>Winchester Self-Loading Rifle and .22 Winchester Automatic. The most
>>unusual thing though, was that there were more than a dozen .22 short
>>and .22 long cases that appear to have been jabbed with a knife. The
>>cut goes through one wall of the case and runs lengthwise just above the
>>rim.
>>Is this just random behavior indicative of boredom or is there more to
>>it than that?
>>Someone suggested that the cases were sticking in the person's gun and
>>they used the knife to remove the case. That makes some sense, but
>>there isn't enough space between the edge of the cut and the mouth of
>>the case on the .22 shorts for it to be stuck. I can't imagine how they
>>managed to get the things to stay still while they punched the hole in
>>them. Risky indeed to hold something that small and stab it with enough
>>force to puncture the case!
>>
>>I plan to try it myself as soon as I have a chance to create some empty
>>.22 cases, but in the meantime, I'd like to hear from the group.
>>
>>Thanks!
>>
>>Paul G. Avery, RPA
>>Senior Archaeologist
>>MACTEC Engineering and Consulting
>>9725 Cogdill Road
>>Knoxville, TN 37932
>>Phone: (865) 588-8544x1169
>>Fax: (865) 588-8026
>
>
> --
>
> Mark C. Branstner, RPA
> Historic Archaeologist
>
> Illinois Transportation
> Archaeological Research Program
> University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
> 209 Nuclear Physics Lab, MC-571
> 23 East Stadium Drive
> Champaign, IL 61820
>
> Phone: 217.244.0892
> Fax: 217.244.7458
> Cell: 517.927.4556
> [log in to unmask]
>
>
> "I hope there's pudding" - Luna Lovegood (HP5)
>
> "If you only have a hammer, every problem looks like a nail"- Anonymous
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