Thank you for the replies ... I KNOW that the Spanish word "carrizo" exists in numerous placenames across the whole southwest, but what I'm asking is when the Spanish were looking at & naming things "carrizo" was it the phragmites australis reed, specifically, that they were referring to in SoCal ... or could it have been some other (simiar ?) reed?
Bob Skiles
~~~~~~~~~~
Yes, reason has been a part of organized religion, ever since two nudists took dietary advice from a talking snake. -- Jon Stewart
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gerald Carbiener" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 9:18 PM
Subject: Re: carrizo = phragmites in SoCal?
>
> And the Carrizo Plain in San Luis Obispo County.
>
>
>
> In a message dated 10/10/2006 7:07:29 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> [log in to unmask] writes:
>
> Yes Virginia, uh, I mean Bob...such reeds are known to have grown...and
> still are growing (I presume) in S. CA.
> http://www.calflora.org/cgi-bin/species_query.cgi?where-taxon=Phragmites
> %20australis&ttime=1160531280
>
> There's a Carrizo Gorge, Carrizob Badlands, Carrizo Creek (& Valley),
> etc. in San Diego/Imperial counties.
>
> (apparently Carrizozo, NM got its name for the abundance of such reeds
> in that area)
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: HISTORICAL ARCHAEOLOGY [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
>>Behalf Of Bob Skiles
>>Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 4:17 PM
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: carrizo = phragmites in SoCal?
>>
>>... the term "carrizo" in the quotation below (and as used by
>>the Spanish chroniclers in western Texas) referred to the
>>phragmites australis reed ...
>>
>>i've seen the word "carrizo" used by early Spanish chroniclers
>>referring to source material for the cane arrows made by the
>>Indians in the area of the southern California missions, too,
>>which clearly (by contextual descriptions of the arrows)
>>refers to some type of cane or reed, but I'm not sure it
>>referred to phragmites ... did phragmites australis (or
>>communis) grow along streams in southern California?
>>
>>Bob Skiles
>>
>>
>>> In James L. Haley's <italic>Apaches: A History and Culture Portrait
>>> (</italic>University of Oklahoma Press, 1997), the author says the
>>> Apache of New Mexico and west Texas made two kinds of
>>arrows, hardwood or cane.
>>> Hardwoods were "preferably mountain mahogany, Apache plume, or
>>> mulberry, and some Chiricahuas became known for arrows of
>>desert broom
>>> (<italic>Baccharis sarothroides</italic>)." (p. 109) Cane
>>arrows were
>>> made from carrizo, and included a hardwood foreshaft four to six
>>> inches long.
>>>
>>
>>
>>~~~
>>"Smithers! Get that bedlamite to an alienist." ~ C. Monty Burns
>>
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