On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 21:43:31 -0600, Bob Harrison <[log in to unmask]> wrote:


>
>If your hypothesis was true Brian then why are millions of hives around the
>world doing just fine on comb which has those levels of those chems?
>
> Randy Oliver and I have pondered the question and it seems to me that bees
>can tolerate a very high PPM of those chems.


i thought we had a world wide crisis in honeybee health?  what does doing fine mean? 

one answer may lie in a tipping point kind of explanation. since around 2004 the two widely used 
strips stopped working and the jug mixes around here became the norm (pre-apiguard).  I do feel 
for the beeks who have had a hard time keeping their bees alive and I'm sure they believed it was 
their only choice. using unlabelled chem applications in a hive is hard to justify when science can 
only do so much to insure chems are safe, then turn around and blame farm chems for your ills?  

all this science is an educated guess at some point in time. time goes forward and new 
information emerges. but maybe we can agree keeping ALL chems out of hives is the best way 
forward!

 i have found human nature in dealing with pesticides figures if some chemical worked more must 
be better. some migratory beeks have issues with big mite loads on CA almond hives that come 
back. some treat twice a season. 

i would postulate that chem use frequency and rate has changed since 2000 or so as almonds 
have become king cash for cash flow. the financial squeeze on beeks has also increased during 
this time. strips are expensive and must be removed. jug mix is cheap and the rag/cardboard 
does not have to be removed.  its a simple business descision.  the cost of fines are still below the 
cost of approved EPA treatments for a large operation. 

the system is BROKE!!!!!

times are changing and the honeybees are in trouble, we have a couple of better choices now for 
legal mite treatments and more and more resistant bee lines to work with. 

i find it disingenuous for beeks to point to Ag chems when over and over again we find massive 
contamination levels in brood comb and beekeeper applied chems top the list for ppb.  

as some of our parents told us as kids - clean up your own act before pointing to others!

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