Although this is somewhat upstaged by David's comments, the idea of red tableware should be explored in connection with red glass points.  Although I'm not sure when production began, I suspect that several forms of red glass tableware would have been thick enough to make a good point, especially fairly small arrow points.

However, red tableware was also very uncommon, probably to the point of rarity.  Do we know of any actual red points, or is this all based on hearsay?

Bill Lockhart



>>> Carol Serr <[log in to unmask]> 8/8/2007 1:11 pm >>>
Here's the Real scoop on the subject folks...from a glass insulator
Expert that I sent the first 2 postings to, to get his comments.


>From: David Whitten 
>Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 12:53 PM
>Subject: Re: Red Glass Insulators - Myth or Truth?
>
>Hi Carol,
>There are several red glass insulators in existence, but all 
>are either "special order repros"  or one-of-a-kind samples 
>made for special occasion (i.e. a Pyrex insulator that was 
>made in red glass, one specimen known, and it was evidently 
>made for a company official.)  NO ruby red glass insulators 
>were ever made for actual use on electrical lines.
> The most commonly seen red glass insulators are the so-called 
>"VTS ponies" 
>and they were made in Korea as a salesman's souvenir item, (I 
>think it was an electrical supplies firm in CA that had 200 
>hundred or so made) or something of that nature. They were 
>made in  the early 1970s. I think there is an article on those 
>somewhere on the web.
>  In any case, no true glass insulators in red exist that 
>could possibly have been in existence anywhere in Arizona 
>during the late 1800s or early 1900s.
>
>There are also red commemoratives made for Insulator 
>conventions.......these are not true insulators, of course.
>
>There are some very rare Canadian insulators in a strange 
>'cranberry red' 
>color, but nothing like a ruby red.   These are also totally 
>out of the 
>realm of possibility of what is being mentioned in the tale.
>
>There ARE a few types of insulators in strong red amber, such 
>as Whitall Tatum red amber CD 154s, and maybe  a handful of 
>others........don't remember CD numbers off the top of my 
>head.  Looking at a shard of glass at a certain angle, and in 
>late afternoon sun, could produce a color tint getting rather 
>close to red......but not actually attaining it. 
>Oh.........The CD 162  made by Hemingray in the 1890s and 
>1900s in a red amber glass.  I don't think those types ever 
>saw service in AZ. They are most commonly seen in Kansas and Missouri.
> This is also true of many of the ''export beer'' 
>bottles........they sometimes were made in a dark reddish 
>amber, that would look sorta red under the right lighting 
>conditions. The thick heavy base of a red amber beer bottle is 
>probably the most likely culprit (or original source) of this 
>story, if indeed someone ever actually found some points made 
>by Indians in a color approaching red.  (Remember that beer 
>bottles of this type were exported in large quantities to the 
>west, especially at forts).
>
>Although it is often repeated that gold is required in the 
>making of red glass, this has not been true for many, many 
>years. Selenium is the main element used in making modern ruby 
>red glass, such as used for traffic signal lenses and other 
>industrial items. The book "Modern Glass Practice" 
>by S.R.Scholes (1946 edition) on page 189 gives a recipe for 
>ruby red glass including selenium, cadmium sulfide, borax and 
>zinc oxide included in the batch. It has to be cooled and then 
>re-heated to the proper temperature to achieve the color.
>However, gold is indeed considered to be capable of producing 
>the most "perfect", intense ruby, although I'm not sure if 
>there is that much of a difference to the average viewer.
>
>I have read about, or seen pictures of projectile points made 
>of aqua glass from telegraph insulators. I have no doubts this 
>did occur, but I am 100% sure no Indian-made points were made 
>of a true red glass (unless an Indian got ahold of a ruby red 
>glass goblet or compote? and I'm sure every fort had some of 
>them lying around? ;-) )  There also could be a SLIGHT 
>possibility that an Indian was able to obtain a red glass 
>railroad signal lense. Not sure if any red lenses were in use 
>at that time in AZ, but that's an idea,  anyhow.  They are 
>probably thick enough to have been a usable source for 
>producing red glass points.
>