Hello Medhat & All,


>Something is damaging the malpighian tubules ( bees kidneys). Damaged M.
tubules was found in most CCD bee samples.

>I will be interested to get a copy of any published information to show
oxalic acid and formic acid damaging the Malpighian tubules.

There is not any to my knowledge as the cause to CCD remains a mystery. The
kind of testing I am about to suggest should prove one way or the other.

Oxalic is more suspect than formic. I am using formic and am not seeing any
problems with my bees. Perhaps you could run a test Medhat and take a look
at the Malpighian tubules on some bees in Canada before and after oa
treatment.

two issues:
1. are the tubules changing oa after treatment?

2. if damage is found at what level of damage would the bee be affected?

If researchers are even considering OA a problem then I think the above
tests need ran.

Does this
>information indicate beekeepers who used oxalic acid and formic acid have
bees suffered from CCD?

 I am not sure about formic but I can say yes on the OA from the people
involved I have spoke with.

Maybe Jerry B. will comment?

> I know beekeepers who have high losses in the USA
and they say that is "CCD". These beekeepers have never used formic acid
or oxalic acid.

Were their bees checked by the CCD team for damaged malpighian tubules? My
sources I have spoke with are many concerned  about the bees they have
looked at an tested. Its hard to tell about those claiming CCD on the survey
as researchers have not looked at most of their bees.

 We all know many beekeepers are blaming all their losses on CCD this time
instead of the many other beekeeping problems which might be the problem.
The symptoms are clearly posted yet many clain CCD yet when asked they say
they saw none of the symptoms but still had deadouts. Must be CCD!


>It would be nice to back some of these statements with some preliminary
research results.

Most all the CCD research reports I have read speak of the damaged
malpighian tubules. Is this the first you have heard of the damage?

Those have been posted on BEE-L. The cause of the damage is debatable but
the fact that damaged tubules is constantly being found is documented for
all to see at several sites.

Have you ever looked for damaged malpighian tubules when testing oa or
formic?

bob


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