Eric Brows:
The point is that it's nonsensical to suggest an
alternative beekeeping/agriculture free from "artificial"
intervention/manipulation/management. If there's no
"artificial" intervention in your "natural system," then
you're not "keeping" bees any more, but harvesting wild
honey.
Reply:
Like I said there is nothing wrong with langs or TBHs, and
basic field management most all do. And I do go for the
harvesting of wild honey free from fears, as much as
possible of contamination by all various in house
doping/treatments be it IPM or not, for medication of
various pests, predators and diseases. I also do not
believe in artificial feeds fed back by beekeepers, while
taking the naturally harvested one the bees themselves
gathered.I also dont believe in complex hybridization of
honeybees as it doesn't appear in the true wild. Only
simple ones exist next to races/strains.
continuing:
You didn't, however, provide any rationale for
differentiating between what we ought and ought not to do.
Reply:
Basically you keep doing what your doing with exception of
the usage of all various doping/treatments be it IPM or not
for pests, predators and diseases. Also you don't
artificially feed artificial sugar or pollen to your bees.
You feed them real honey or pollen when they need it, which
is seldom and usually only connected with new
splits/divides. You also acclimitize your bees by local
breeding be it splits or divides or utilization of feral
bees caught. You also size back down to comb sizes by
either TBH self drawing of combs or usage of SC 4.9mm top
tolerance foundation to reach basic regression, and then
let the bees come on from there once stabilized and queen
shifted, with each sizing down, depending upon how many
needed to get from present size one is currently on. This
is done so environment is redone, so diet is redone, and
breeding follows.
Continuing:
shouldn't we recognize that all "management" is inherently
"unnatural", and go about promoting better
management?
Reply:
Probably, but disease and pest/predator problems gone wild
the past 100 years is a recent thing IMPOV and bees have
been kept in various management ways okay for centuries. So
containers really no problem, and normal everyday
management most do no problem. So simply take away the
artificial feeds and use real honey and pollen. Simply
don't do all various treatments/doping methods. And other
then simple divides/splits if one wanted to get away from
simple grafting even this would be another option, so only
simple hybrids are worked with in one's local area,
acclimitized to your local area/region also. Then put the
bees back onto sizing in the center of the natural sizing
spectrum and when stablilzed let them go from there. That
way you will end up with size range of small,medium.large
needed for variability in your area. Also in size range
remember that you split hairs with sizing and not dramatic
differences and most don't do much distance in keeping
bees.Only todays bees are seen with much variation and that
is due to complex mongrelization, and so beekeepers think
this is normal haveing seen nothing else many times and
this is wrong. It is also why SC is recommended with 4.9mm
top tolerance being in center of spectrum to give the bees
a starting point to zero down to, to then come forward
again depending upon where the bees are kept.
continuing:
(To rephrase Peter's point, what about that untreated hive
that's dead?) I reject the assumption that "artificial"
practices must lead to things going wrong.
Reply:
Bees inbred and closed population bred and upsized do have
a way of no making it when put back. Bees in the wild do
not inbreed, and only do simple hybrids, not complex ones.
continuing:
"Nature" likewise does not and cannot tell us if and how
much cell size matters; again, we must instead look to
actual evidence.)
Reply:
This is why it takes several regressions down to get to
good acclimitized bees for ones area, and also dependent
upon the spheres of influence in any one given area to
amount of domestic LC bees kept to keep things off balance.
It is why also those having problems are recommended to use
SC foundation beginning,for an imprint to help the bees
draw better more consistent comb, because of variability of
subfamiles of worker bees in size,in same hives due to
complex mongrelization in most localities. You use the
foundation then to get size uniformity so with uniformity
comes better breeding uniformity size wise to get beter
mated into the feral populations for obtaining surivorship
trait needs found there.
Regards,
Dee
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