ISEN-ASTC-L is a service of the Association of Science-Technology Centers
Incorporated, a worldwide network of science museums and related institutions.
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Eric;
	 I am not certain why it is important to "describe an 
objective hierarchy between ignorant and enlightened, between ID 
believers and evolution believers"? It is not an issue of being 
ignorant or enlightened. The struggle is for political power and 
pushing an agenda that is believed to be anti-atheistic 
(anti-evolution; anti-Darwin; anti-intellectual; anti-elitist).  This 
is not about evolution for I don't know any groups that are against 
teaching atomic theory or relativity and gravitational theory as they 
are against evolution theory.

	Clearly from surveys, there are folks who have limited 
understanding of the mechanisms and the importance of evolution. 
However, there maybe lots who value quality science education for 
their children. I suspect if polls were but put in this way (below) 
we might get at this issue.

Question:

Should students be exposed to the best education possible, or should 
they be indoctrinated into religious concepts, like Intelligent 
Design creationism? Give us your opinion.
	*
	Yes, the theory of evolution is one example of a robust 
scientific theory which should be taught in public schools.
	*
	No, students should be taught sectarian religious concepts in 
public schools, at the expense of actual science.


Martin


>Do we know what percentage of people who "believe" in natural 
>selection actually understand it?  I am assuming that some extremely 
>small percentage of people...even those who say that they believe 
>that natural selection most accurately explains the process of 
>biological evolution --could describe even the most basic and 
>essential aspects of the mechanism of natural selection.
>
>Could one therefore say that those who ignorantly profess belief in 
>natural selection simply have faith that science is a better 
>explanation than religion?  If that were a fair statement, then it 
>would be difficult to describe an objective hierarchy, from ignorant 
>to enlightened, between ID believers and science believers.
>
>Please keep in mind that I am among the ignorant science believers, 
>so be kind...
>
>Eric Siegel
>Executive VP
>    Programs and Planning
>NY Hall of Science
>47-01 111th Street
>Queens, NY 11368
>www.nyscience.org
>
>On Aug 5, 2005, at 12:22 PM, martin weiss wrote:
>
>
>
>>  ISEN-ASTC-L is a service of the Association of Science-Technology Centers
>>  Incorporated, a worldwide network of science museums and related 
>>institutions.
>> 
>>*****************************************************************************
>>
>>  Hope this helpful.
>>
>>      Random only means not directed. Genetic mutations are random: 
>>we can calculate, like with coin flips, the probability of 
>>different mutations occurring.
>>
>>      An analogy to what biologists mean when they say evolution is 
>>random is a trial of coin flips. The result of a coin flip is 
>>random NOT because we have no idea how it will result but because 
>>we cannot say for certain how it will result. We have some idea 
>>what will happen - half of time we'll flip heads, and half of the 
>>time we'll flip tails. The coin flip is said to be random because 
>>we cannot say for certain what will happen, but we can determine 
>>the probability of each result. Random is another way of saying 
>>"not directed" (i.e., there is nothing determining absolutely the 
>>result of a particular trial or run).
>>
>>      It's important to understand that when biologists say the 
>>mutational process is random, we mean that it is not directed. 
>>There is nothing determining definitively that a mutation will 
>>occur at a particular nucleotide. Mutations provide the raw 
>>material on which natural selection acts. Natural selection (and 
>>other evolution forces) is a deterministic process; a beneficial 
>>mutation will always reach fixation in an ideal population (i.e., 
>>natural selection will cause it to replace all the other alleles), 
>>and a deleterious mutation will always be lost. We have no way of 
>>saying for sure whether or not a particular nucleotide will mutate 
>>because mutation is a random process - we can only assign a 
>>probability that it will mutate.
>>
>>  Martin
>
>
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-- 
Martin Weiss, Ph.D
Vice President, Science
New York Hall of Science
47-01 111 th Street
Corona, New York 11368
718 699 0005 x 356

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