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Hope this helpful.
Random only means not directed. Genetic mutations are random:
we can calculate, like with coin flips, the probability of different
mutations occurring.
An analogy to what biologists mean when they say evolution is
random is a trial of coin flips. The result of a coin flip is random
NOT because we have no idea how it will result but because we cannot
say for certain how it will result. We have some idea what will
happen - half of time we'll flip heads, and half of the time we'll
flip tails. The coin flip is said to be random because we cannot say
for certain what will happen, but we can determine the probability of
each result. Random is another way of saying "not directed" (i.e.,
there is nothing determining absolutely the result of a particular
trial or run).
It's important to understand that when biologists say the
mutational process is random, we mean that it is not directed. There
is nothing determining definitively that a mutation will occur at a
particular nucleotide. Mutations provide the raw material on which
natural selection acts. Natural selection (and other evolution
forces) is a deterministic process; a beneficial mutation will always
reach fixation in an ideal population (i.e., natural selection will
cause it to replace all the other alleles), and a deleterious
mutation will always be lost. We have no way of saying for sure
whether or not a particular nucleotide will mutate because mutation
is a random process - we can only assign a probability that it will
mutate.
Martin
>The "random" bit bothers me too. Genetic mutation could be considered random
>but natural selection is cumulative and isn't random at all.... pressures of
>the environment serve as the force that drives it.
>
>Amanda
>
>***
>Amanda Chesworth, Educational Director
>Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal
>www.csicop.org
>Inquiring Minds Program
>www.inquiringminds.org
>Skeptical Inquirer Magazine
>www.skepticalinquirer.org
>Skeptiseum
>www.skeptiseum.org
>Skeptic's Toolbox
>www.skepticstoolbox.org
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jason Jay Stevens" <[log in to unmask]>
>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 10:59 AM
>Subject: Re: President Bush and Intelligent Design
>
>
>> ISEN-ASTC-L is a service of the Association of Science-Technology Centers
>> Incorporated, a worldwide network of science museums and related
>institutions.
>>
>****************************************************************************
>*
>>
>> > Wagner gets taken out behind the woodshed and thrashed.
>>
>> Oh boy. Ouch.
>>
>> Note throughout the posts, there is a focus on "randomness" versus the
>> determined/intentional acts of an intelligent designer.
>>
>> This whole idea of randomness continues to bother me, too.
>>
>> There's a mechanism involved here; we call it randomness or chance, but
>> it isn't the same kind of chance that gets you snake eyes three times
>> in a row. Nature didn't Oops! stumble upon a horse. Lucky Nature,
>> lucky horse. In this universe, with these physical laws, on this
>> planet, with these conditions, a horse is perhaps the logical outcome.
>> Perhaps our brains are too little to follow the complex course of
>> causation, but calling it "chance," "random" or "accidental" implies to
>> non-scientists that humanity is an unwanted abberation in the cosmos.
>>
>> Last time I brought this up (I mentioned the similarities between the
>> prehistoric American savannah fauna and present-day African savannah
>> fauna [similar ecologies give rise to similar organisms]), I got
>> swooped upon by some biologists, correcting me that evolution is, in
>> fact, a "random" process.
>> But I hold my ground. "Random" ain't the right choice of wording here.
>> Life isn't an "accident" the same way I dropped coffee on my
>> colleague's lap. Regardless of whether there are invisible superheroes
>> guiding our lives from outer space or not, this Universe has the
>> capacity for Life as part of its inherent structure.
>>
>> Y'know, language shapes perspective.
>>
>> BTW--podcasts of radio shows produced by WNYC are not "free" as I said
>> in a recent, unrelated post. They're "listener-supported." Let's get
>> the language right.
>>
>> __
>> JasonJayStevens
>> Exhibits Design + Fabrication at the Ann Arbor Hands-On Museum
>> [log in to unmask]
>> www.aahom.org
>>
>> On Aug 5, 2005, at 9:51 AM, martin weiss wrote:
>>
>> > ISEN-ASTC-L is a service of the Association of Science-Technology
>> > Centers
>> > Incorporated, a worldwide network of science museums and related
>> > institutions.
>> > ***********************************************************************
>> > ******
>> >
>> > Yes, we've been round on this here and on Museum-l but I think this
>> > (from a colleague may offer some cheer.
>> >
>> > <http://www.corante.com/loom/archives/2005/08/02/
>> > a_question_for_the_president.php>http://www.corante.com/loom/archives/
>> > 2005/08/02/a_question_for_the_president.php
>> >
>> > On Carl Zimmer's blog a debate in the Comments section has become
>> > quite exciting. There's an ID proponent, Charlie Wagner, who has been
>> > making outrageous, illogical claims, and near the very of the page
>> > (second comment to last, the long one by Tim Chase), Wagner gets taken
>> > out behind the woodshed and thrashed.
>> >
>> > Martin
>> > --
>> > Martin Weiss, Ph.D
>> > Vice President, Science
>> > New York Hall of Science
>> > 47-01 111 th Street
>> > Corona, New York 11368
>> > 718 699 0005 x 356
>> >
>> > ***********************************************************************
>> > More information about the Informal Science Education Network and the
>> > Association of Science-Technology Centers may be found at
>> > http://www.astc.org.
>> > To remove your e-mail address from the ISEN-ASTC-L list, send the
>> > message SIGNOFF ISEN-ASTC-L in the BODY of a message to
>> > [log in to unmask]
>> >
>>
>> ***********************************************************************
>> More information about the Informal Science Education Network and the
>> Association of Science-Technology Centers may be found at
>http://www.astc.org.
>> To remove your e-mail address from the ISEN-ASTC-L list, send the
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>
>***********************************************************************
>More information about the Informal Science Education Network and the
>Association of Science-Technology Centers may be found at http://www.astc.org.
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--
Martin Weiss, Ph.D
Vice President, Science
New York Hall of Science
47-01 111 th Street
Corona, New York 11368
718 699 0005 x 356
***********************************************************************
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