> I think in Allen's case the bees are on average >14 days old.

Yes, I agree, but the ones of interest are any that are younger, and it
seems to me that there must be some... a least a few.

I originally titled this, "At What Age do Bees Begin to forage?",
but  maybe it should have been, "At What Age are Bees Able to Fly?".

> orientation flights happened about 4-6 days, so
> these bees do know where their hive is.
>
> I recently shook some bees from a hive 6 ft away (on open brood, make
> sure no queen) to a weak hive and most young bees walked into
> the new hive, instead of returning to their original hive! This is just
> opposite to Allen's situation... of course queen breeders know about
> this and this is how a "starter" colony is made to rear
> the queen cells -- lots of young bees from different colonies would
> stay in a nuc in the same yard.

Yes, we use that technique, too, and there are a number of neat tricks one
can do.  We even discussed a device to use the effect on this list a few
years back.  Anyone recall?

That is why what I reported seems to me to be an anomaly.  The phenomenon I
mention is only observed when there has been an uninterrupted heavy flow
underway for a few days.   I suspect that, in some areas of the continent,
this phenomenon is seldom, if ever, seen, since abandonment does not work
well except under specific conditions, and requires expert judgement.
Moreover, those who promote and use repellents may never have an opportunity
to observe it.  Also, since what I report is an anomaly (heresy!?), and
somewhat unique, I can also understand why some may rush to discount the
reports and attempt to explain the observations away by applying dogma.
Nonetheless, in removing hundreds of thousands of supers by abandonment over
the past three decades, I have been puzzled by observing this on many
occasions, and it seems to me that either the youngest, supposedly
non-flying bees do not wander those few inches into the supers, or they have
had a flight.  The other possibilities, following scent, etc. are also
possible and cannot be entirely discounted without proof, but do not fit my
(somewhat casual) observations.

I wonder -- and maybe Zach can help me with this, since it is right down his
alley --

i.) How early after emerging bees physically can fly.  I suspect this may
depend on how well the larvae were fed, since I see some pretty weak looking
baby bees in malnourished hives and

ii.) How far from the brood baby bees wander, since the supers we set aside
from abandoning were sometimes mere inches from brood, but separated from it
by an excluder.

iii.) Will baby bees go through an excluder?  Maybe that explains
everything.

> Regarding job changes -- nurses cannot simply go forage, because
> there are many physiological changes involved (juvenile hormone
> titers are higher in foragers, food glands shrink, amines change,  to
> name a few), so we call this  big behavioural switch "behavioural
> development" (it is not like they can forage one day and then nurse
> next day -- the changes are not easy and this "reversion" only
> occur under special circumstances).

If the bees do switch to foraging early in a heavy flow, perhaps that, along
with the competition for cells from incoming nectar, helps explain the
reduction in brood rearing and queen raising during a heavy flow.

Thanks, all, for your input on this interesting question.

A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/

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